Dispute Should this feedback R G B left for Monkeyman be removed? (1 Viewer)

[Redbot]

Username(s) of the accused

R G B

This is an official feedback dispute, sponsored by the Ducat shop. After 7 days the votes will be tallied and the most popular judgement upheld. Official feedback rules are found here.

@Monkeyman is disputing feedback left by @R G B
Here is a link to the feedback. Note that this link may not work for non-moderators due to the user's privacy settings.

It reads:

"Warning untrustworthy. Reneged on transaction costing me money/time."

If you are a moderator or staff please do not vote or comment.

 

[Xuande]

 

[tslsmok]

that's what I am l looking for

 

[Birdman]

Yeah RBG and I had agreed to meet around 11pm EST to do 8.75/e and i told him i wanted 9,00 but he said no. so then after finding gnomie for $9 obviously I told him I was going to sell elsewhere and he threated negative feedback if I didn't give him his kronos in 24 hours at price because it was an "innconvience to him"
Myself didnt feel comfortable Giving him the krono first THEN him paying me. Becuase as the seller. the buyer provides money first them you give them what they need, he wanted me to parcel 80 krono to him (which i dont feel safe about for krono ban waves either) However NO money was assigned and nothing was sent. so He is just leaving negative feedback because his "competition" got my 80 kronos instead of him because he wouldnt match the markets price.

He gave me falsified negative feedback. Due to the fact of not Wasting his money. No money was in transaction. If he wanted to leave neg feedback for backing out of a deal thats one thing but to openly TELL people i costed him money when ZERO transactions were done in unacceptable

 

[Mega Man]

MONKEY: I got 80 Kronos I can sell you IF you do 9.00/each.

Loggin off until tomorrow AM 10AM est ish


Yesterday at 9:54 PM
MONKEY: Any word??


Today at 2:18 AM
RGB: Hello Monkey. I can't pay market value for krono unfortunately. I would be buying bulk saving you time and getting nothing in return when I can just purchase them from any supplier at that price.
Sorry but thank you for the offer.

If it is within your power to lower slightly to 8.75, I'm happy to pick them up.
Thanks,



MONKEY: Today at 8:12 AM
Sure We can do $8.75 for 80 of them which = $700.
How do you want to do this obviously not sent you 80 in parcel lmao


Today at 11:30 AM
RGB: Great, sounds like a deal.

You certainly can send 80 krono in the parcel. There has never been a ban directly related to parcels. I'll be home later today and we can do it

You can also send ahead of time and I will send payment when I get home in a few hours.

Lets shoot for Server **********************-

If you could also leave your paypal email that would be perfect. I will send as Friends and Family and with no note or "friend" attached.



Today at 11:38 AM
MONKEY: I just left for work. I won’t be home till 11pm EST

Today at 11:38 AM
RGB: That time will work perfectly. See you then



Today at 9:56 PM
MONKEY: Hey sorry, had someone in our guild message me little bit ago and paid me $10 per krono for my entire stack. if i get more i will let you know



9 minutes ago
RGB: I appreciate the apology but we had already made a deal. Under the policy you may not back out of a handshake agreement which you made. I had made arrangements and moved money around at my own cost to meet our deal.


7 minutes ago
RGB: I am happy to not leave you negative feedback if you decide to fulfill your obligations. I have been very courteous with you, even waiting longer than the time you had set our trade up for. This has been a major inconvenience for me.


6 minutes ago
RGB: I am happy to extend you a 24 hour window to fulfill your obligations before I leave feedback. I feel like that is more than acceptable under the circumstances which you placed me in.

MONKEY: Do what you need to do, I sold them to a guildie. I let you know before it was even time. Was very “inconvenient” for me that you took over 24 hours to respond initially as well. Things change, unless money is in hand than that is a different story. I’ve had several people back out of things or even ghost me here. And I don’t leave negative feedback. If it was only a few krono it wouldn’t have been a “huge” deal



Today at 9:46 AM
RGB: You had sold them to AmericanGnomie in the buyer section. Whether or not he is your guild member does not change the financial situation you put me in after you agreed to the transaction, which had me preparing, driving around, moving money, selling cheaper than I normally would etc.

It is against policy as I stated above, for the reasons I mentioned. You costed me a great deal of time and money.

"Things change, unless money is in hand than that is a different story."

That may be your opinion, but that is not in line with the sites policy. Traders make real adjustments after agreeing to a transaction, which can have real consequences. That is why that policy is in place. I had made financial adjustments to meet our agreement.

I appreciate that you understand the circumstances, I just wish you were more considerate of others time and money placed on your word.

I wish you luck in the future.

 

[Mega Man]

 

[Mega Man]

I don't understand how this is even up for debate, it is strictly in the policy for good reason. I basically wasted gas money and time driving 10 hours to buy an item someone agreed to, only to get there the guy tells me he sold it to someone else as he knows I am on my way.

 

[Diamond Krono]

Yeah RBG and I had agreed to meet around 11pm EST to do 8.75/e and i told him i wanted 9,00 but he said no. so then after finding gnomie for $9 obviously I told him I was going to sell elsewhere and he threated negative feedback if I didn't give him his kronos in 24 hours at price because it was an "innconvience to him"
Myself didnt feel comfortable Giving him the krono first THEN him paying me. Becuase as the seller. the buyer provides money first them you give them what they need, he wanted me to parcel 80 krono to him (which i dont feel safe about for krono ban waves either) However NO money was assigned and nothing was sent. so He is just leaving negative feedback because his "competition" got my 80 kronos instead of him because he wouldnt match the markets price.

He gave me falsified negative feedback. Due to the fact of not Wasting his money. No money was in transaction. If he wanted to leave neg feedback for backing out of a deal thats one thing but to openly TELL people i costed him money when ZERO transactions were done in unacceptable

I'm going to be as non-bias as I can, but this is pretty cut and dry.


Everything you are saying here is a very loose assumption. I'd be happy to break it down.

1. You said' Yeah RBG and I had agreed to meet around 11pm EST to do 8.75/e and i told him i wanted 9,00 but he said no. so then after finding gnomie for $9 obviously I told him I was going to sell elsewhere and he threated negative feedback if I didn't give him his kronos in 24 hours at price because it was an "innconvience to him"

You left out the part where you agreed to 8.75 and a time frame of when you will be able to transact. You also mixed up the order at which each statement occurred. The order you state things occurred is not accurate and paints a different picture.
You also state to RGB that you had sold his krono for 10.00 each, yet here you stating you sold them for 9.00 each. He didn't "Threaten you" He offered you 24 hours to right your wrongs, which are in policy. He didn't have to extend that courtesy.

2. because it was an "inconvenience to him" "He gave me falsified negative feedback. Due to the fact of not Wasting his money. "

How are you possibly aware of what he went through to complete this transaction?

3. "Myself didnt feel comfortable Giving him the krono first THEN him paying me.

There is zero mention of this in your conversation with him, and it is plain to see in his add that he ONLY SENDS AFTER PAYMENT.

4. "However NO money was assigned and nothing was sent"

A transaction does not need to have been completed to receive feedback, only an attempt which this clearly is.

5. so He is just leaving negative feedback because his "Competition" got my 80 kronos instead of him because he wouldnt match the markets price

You are assuming he left you negative feedback because he is upset about his "competition" receiving the krono. There is no "Because he wouldn't match the price" You AGREED to make the transaction, and apparently he went through the motions to be ready for your convenience at a time YOU stated to complete the transaction.

6. "obviously I told him I was going to sell elsewhere"

Where did you mention that? Not trying to be rude, but are you just falsifying everything that occurred in the conversation?



-My vote is to keep the feedback, it is absolutely clear what is going on here.



I also caution away from relaying to other traders personal information, such as @AmericanGnomie being in your guild in game.

Just my two cents.

~Diamond Krono

 

[Birdman]

ONCE again.. Claiming i wasted your money when no trade was active is a load of bullshit, if you wanna say i flaked on a deal thats fine. but wasting your money is bullshit

 

[Birdman]

A transaction does not need to have been completed to receive feedback, only an attempt which this clearly is.

HOWEVER. Wasting his money???? where is his money wasted? . Maybe time? Claiming someone is wasting there money in a negative feedback is falsified. I never wasted his money. Neg feedback for Flaking on a deal. Sure. But wasting his money. no..

 

[Birdman]

Your also Assuming i sold my Krono i was using for RGB to him VS a actual guildie. I dont have to Sell things directly on ECTunnel at all cost. Its not unheard of to sell to guildies. unless i cant do that?

 

[Mega Man]

I sold krono for cheaper than I normally would, to pick up your krono at 8.75 which you agreed to.
That is called losing money.

I moved money around from Cashapp and other platforms using the instant deposit function, which also, costs money.

There are a myriad of other things that also costed me money and wasted my time, those are only a few.

I am trying to explain to you in every detail possible, you gave your word on a handshake deal, then blew it off. I have obligations that need to be met. I made arrangements based on your time frame.

 

[Mega Man]

I even offered you 24 hours to make it right which you scoffed at. It is not my intention to meet you with any ill will, but what you did affected me negatively, that is the reason for the feedback.

 

[Birdman]

Well "Wasting" someones money is out of the mix. Leaving feedback for dipping on a deal is perfectly fine. But claiming to everyone i wasted your money is false. Ive has so many people flake on deals for me here to. and you dont see me leaving negative feedback saying they "wasted my money" no cause all they did was waste my time not my money

 

[Diamond Krono]

Well "Wasting" someones money is out of the mix. Leaving feedback for dipping on a deal is perfectly fine. But claiming to everyone i wasted your money is false. Ive has so many people flake on deals for me here to. and you dont see me leaving negative feedback saying they "wasted my money" no cause all they did was waste my time not my money

The fact you didn't leave someone negative feedback is not reason why RGB cannot. And I understand completely where he is coming from, I have been in many similar situations myself. Yes, it costs money to move things around, and time. I don't see how you can argue that point. I have tried to think of any and all ways I could defend from your position, it just isn't logical.

 

[Drognir]

Time is money.

 

[klesko]

Can we all just agree that Krono flippers making 1-2 bucks per krono kind of sucks and not really in the spirit of EC Tunnel.

Flipping like this never used to happen because daybreak would randomly ban people with over x krono and wipe out those small 1 to 2 dollar gains and make flipping super risky as one ban would wipe out weeks of profit and basically bankrupt a flipper. They havent banned for krono in years though. Now half the top sellers here are nothing but super aggressive flippers maybe its time they get back into the krono banning game I dont know.

Anyway I am going to vote to remove the negative remark.

 

[Diamond Krono]

Can we all just agree that Krono flippers making 1-2 bucks per krono kind of sucks and not really in the spirit of EC Tunnel.

Flipping like this never used to happen because daybreak would randomly ban people with over x krono and wipe out those small 1 to 2 dollar gains and make flipping super risky as one ban would wipe out weeks of profit and basically bankrupt a flipper. They havent banned for krono in years though. Now half the top sellers here are nothing but super aggressive flippers maybe its time they get back into the krono banning game I dont know.

Anyway I am going to vote to remove the negative remark.

Your opinion on resale has no bearing in this argument. This is possibly the most bias vote I have ever heard.
Obviously I have respect you for Klesko, but can't someone else say the same about you? Maybe someone else doesn't like you because you are not a "krono flipper"

Would it be fair for them to vote against you simply because of that, even though it has zero bearing in the argument at hand?

 

[Birdman]

Honestly DK have a most bias vote for RGBs "cousin" going back n forth in a thread, seems pretty biased no matter the situation

 

[Diamond Krono]

My comment will not be met with a response, the absolute absurdity of it was shocking to hear from Klesko. I'll defend his right to an opinion, but it is not an opinion about this matter, thus rendering it bias. That is quite literally the definition of bias.
Words of reasoning are not always the popular ones.

 

[Mega Man]

If you haven't seen Diamond break down every trial, than you don't know Diamond.

 

[Diamond Krono]

If your asking for bias, there were 3 votes before RGB even commented here with his side of the story. I'm not one to nit pick, but you did ask me about it Lol.

 

[Diamond Krono]

Can we all just agree that Krono flippers making 1-2 bucks per krono kind of sucks and not really in the spirit of EC Tunnel.

Flipping like this never used to happen because daybreak would randomly ban people with over x krono and wipe out those small 1 to 2 dollar gains and make flipping super risky as one ban would wipe out weeks of profit and basically bankrupt a flipper. They havent banned for krono in years though. Now half the top sellers here are nothing but super aggressive flippers maybe its time they get back into the krono banning game I dont know.

Anyway I am going to vote to remove the negative remark.

I can't say it better than the illustrious Bractos, have to give him props on this fine statement. I thought it was obvious to everyone already.

 

[sgreen]

The thing i don't get here, is if RGB did all of these things in a rush , already had a character name, and a server to send them to, the only thing that seems to be missing, was the payment. Maybe I missed something, but I am not sending any krono without a payment, and until you have paid for said "Handshake" deal , there is no deal. If it was time and money, he would have had the payment waiting for the krono, I dont see that, I see the opposite. A guy waiting for payment to send out krono, seems maybe RGB was too slow and monkey needed to sale, as he was already offering a lower price, he wanted the money. It cannot be said Monkey wasted RGB time, unless the money had been sent and the krono not delivered in a timely manner.

 

[bractos45]

I’m here, always in the shadows…

But seriously, life’s been busy (in a lot of good ways) and after I walk this damn stage finally tomorrow and enjoy a few drinks with the girlfriend, I plan on digging into this Sunday when I get a chance to take a breath. I love-me-some feedback dispute logical reasoning practice. (Which y’all have been doing absolutely excellent at)

Cheers!!

 

[Diamond Krono]

The thing i don't get here, is if RGB did all of these things in a rush , already had a character name, and a server to send them to, the only thing that seems to be missing, was the payment. Maybe I missed something, but I am not sending any krono without a payment, and until you have paid for said "Handshake" deal , there is no deal. If it was time and money, he would have had the payment waiting for the krono, I dont see that, I see the opposite. A guy waiting for payment to send out krono, seems maybe RGB was too slow and monkey needed to sale, as he was already offering a lower price, he wanted the money. It cannot be said Monkey wasted RGB time, unless the money had been sent and the krono not delivered in a timely manner.

You do not see where Monkey says he is unavailable until 11?

Today at 11:30 AM
RGB: Great, sounds like a deal.

Today at 11:38 AM
MONKEY: I just left for work. I won’t be home till 11pm EST

Today at 11:38 AM
RGB: That time will work perfectly. See you then

 

[Diamond Krono]

Are we going to act like this is not a deal.. I don't give a crap if both you remove each others feedbacks, but Monkey is 100% in the wrong here, its blatant.
I have been in similar situations where I just don't deal with the customer further because they are untrustworthy and wasted my time. I don't leave them negative feedback because I don't care about a few dollars.

But that doesn't mean RGB doesn't have the right to leave feedback.
The policy literally states this exact instance is against the rules, you have one bias group voting up one side because they don't like how RGB conducts business, yet how he does such business is within the confines of the policy.

If we are going to set a president that the policy doesn't matter, that's fine, but it is not going to help the forum to ignore it.

 

[Diamond Krono]

The thing i don't get here, is if RGB did all of these things in a rush , already had a character name, and a server to send them to, the only thing that seems to be missing, was the payment. Maybe I missed something, but I am not sending any krono without a payment, and until you have paid for said "Handshake" deal , there is no deal. If it was time and money, he would have had the payment waiting for the krono, I dont see that, I see the opposite. A guy waiting for payment to send out krono, seems maybe RGB was too slow and monkey needed to sale, as he was already offering a lower price, he wanted the money. It cannot be said Monkey wasted RGB time, unless the money had been sent and the krono not delivered in a timely manner.

MONKEY: Today at 8:12 AM
Sure We can do $8.75 for 80 of them which = $700.

What do you call that?

 

[Diamond Krono]

I’m here, always in the shadows…

But seriously, life’s been busy (in a lot of good ways) and after I walk this damn stage finally tomorrow and enjoy a few drinks with the girlfriend, I plan on digging into this Sunday when I get a chance to take a breath. I love-me-some feedback dispute logical reasoning practice. (Which y’all have been doing absolutely excellent at)

Cheers!!

At least some good is coming of this

 

[wydeclare]

I feel like monkey man could have been decent enough to log in and say yo got a better offer I need to back out of this agreement and I think it would have settled this together but because he sold them without telling him he did and he has to ask at the agreed time for the krono etc then to be told oh I sold them for 10.00 per to someone else deserves more then negative feed back that’s sorta like those douche bag brothers shit.

1 offer was made
2 monkey accepted offer gave time for transfer and they both agreed too the transfer and time
3 monkey man fucked r g b over by not following through with agreement hence I think he should keep the feedback and maybe get some time off since he don’t have to sell his stuff on ectunnels

 

[Diamond Krono]

I feel like monkey man could have been decent enough to log in and say yo got a better offer I need to back out of this agreement and I think it would have settled this together but because he sold them without telling him he did and he has to ask at the agreed time for the krono etc then to be told oh I sold them for 10.00 per to someone else deserves more then negative feed back that’s sorta like those douche bag brothers shit.

1 offer was made
2 monkey accepted offer gave time for transfer and they both agreed too the transfer and time
3 monkey man fucked r g b over by not following through with agreement hence I think he should keep the feedback and maybe get some time off since he don’t have to sell his stuff on ectunnels

Absolutely agree, I honestly don't see how this can be seen any other way.

 

[bractos45]

Wow, actually this got off the rails.

Firstly, absolutely Krono resellers have every right to do what they do. In the same sense we don’t report players for playing the bazaar to GMs, we don’t do that here. Go elsewhere if you don’t wish to compete, or sell more.

Monkey; Scummy business move dude. Negative feedback totally warranted as this was essentially a made deal. (Don’t forget about trust in the equation of EC-economics) Business ethics is almost parallel with reputation here.

RGB; You learned a hard business lesson here man, and you got a bit burned because of it. I too would’ve believed this was a deal being made, but, from a consultant stance; you tried to pay for an investment you couldn’t afford. Lowering prices, liquidating, etc… that’s a lot of moving parts for what should be a back and forth deal. I’ve made transactions with sellers here before to offload a large number of Krono for commission, but that also requires a massive amount of trust between the two parties, which didn’t exist here. Sorry man.

 

[Diamond Krono]

The thing i don't get here, is if RGB did all of these things in a rush , already had a character name, and a server to send them to, the only thing that seems to be missing, was the payment. Maybe I missed something, but I am not sending any krono without a payment, and until you have paid for said "Handshake" deal , there is no deal. If it was time and money, he would have had the payment waiting for the krono, I dont see that, I see the opposite. A guy waiting for payment to send out krono, seems maybe RGB was too slow and monkey needed to sale, as he was already offering a lower price, he wanted the money. It cannot be said Monkey wasted RGB time, unless the money had been sent and the krono not delivered in a timely manner.

RGB had an add up in "WTB Krono" section, which Monkey inquired to. AKA, Monkey messaged him to sell his krono. They both agreed to a deal. RGBs add clearly states he does not send first. Even that doesn't matter, it was never even talked about in the conversation Lol.

 

[Mega Man]

Wow, actually this got off the rails.

Firstly, absolutely Krono resellers have every right to do what they do. In the same sense we don’t report players for playing the bazaar to GMs, we don’t do that here. Go elsewhere if you don’t wish to compete, or sell more.

Monkey; Scummy business move dude. Negative feedback totally warranted as this was essentially a made deal. (Don’t forget about trust in the equation of EC-economics) Business ethics is almost parallel with reputation here.

RGB; You learned a hard business lesson here man, and you got a bit burned because of it. I too would’ve believed this was a deal being made, but, from a consultant stance; you tried to pay for an investment you couldn’t afford. Lowering prices, liquidating, etc… that’s a lot of moving parts for what should be a back and forth deal. I’ve made transactions with sellers here before to offload a large number of Krono for commission, but that also requires a massive amount of trust between the two parties, which didn’t exist here. Sorry man.

I had payment ready, he told me a time he would be ready and agreed to the structure.
I did a lot to hold up my end, full well knowing that the policy exists in place to stop people from abusing the policies. If the policies are not to be up[held, than this site has some serious issues.

 

[Mega Man]

I trusted moderators to enforce the policy and rules of this forum. Based on that, I took this trader MonkeyMan at his word. When he broke his vow to complete the transaction, I was left at a loss of money and time. I told him I am happy to give him 24 hours to fix the issue, rather than to just give him negative feedback. He then spun it in a way that I was somehow threatening him.

 

[Diamond Krono]

If you want to be petty about all of this like MonkeyMan, Let's play the petty game. Monkeyman went on to claim that he sold them to a guildmate for 10,00. when In fact, he mixed up his words accidentally here in this very thread, stating he sold them for 9.00.
but not only that, he said he sold them to a guildmate, which is not true either because Gnomie is not his guildmate. To implicate someone as such is also wrong. Then he went on to try and cover it up by saying, "Well it wasn't THOSE 80 krono, it was a DIFFERENT 80 KRONO"

I mean dude. How about the traders here with experience stand up for the policy? It's very strict on this situation. Where would we be without that policy, scams would run more rampant than they already do. If the policy does nothing but serve as a bluff, than it's completely and utterly useless.

 

[bractos45]

I trusted moderators to enforce the policy and rules of this forum. Based on that, I took this trader MonkeyMan at his word. When he broke his vow to complete the transaction, I was left at a loss of money and time. I told him I am happy to give him 24 hours to fix the issue, rather than to just give him negative feedback. He then spun it in a way that I was somehow threatening him.

Man I’m actually on your side here. i agree, the feedback is warranted, it was a scummy move. People will see it.

But, no one forced you to transfer funds, sell stock, etc… to come up with the $700. Also, if you sold all x80 at $10 a pop, that only leaves $100 profit. You’re already cutting into that by adding random fees and what not? The guys not a scammer, just made a scum bag move. If you’re a Krono seller, this deal to you should have been looked at as an investment, that always involves risk.

 

[Mega Man]

Man I’m actually on your side here. i agree, the feedback is warranted, it was a scummy move. People will see it.

But, no one forced you to transfer funds, sell stock, etc… to come up with the $700. Also, if you sold all x80 at $10 a pop, that only leaves $100 profit. You’re already cutting into that by adding random fees and what not? The guys not a scammer, just made a scum bag move. If you’re a Krono seller, this deal to you should have been looked at as an investment, that always involves risk.

With all due respect Bractos, you do not know what I sell krono for, and you do not know my financial situation and what a dollar or two means to me.

 

[Mega Man]

I am on his side as well, I did what I could to assist him even after what he had committed to.

It is not about whether or not he forced me to do anything, I went into it full well knowing that the policy backs up my trade, and the likelihood is that he will keep our deal because if he does not, the policy has repercussions in place to thwart malicious behavior.

If the case is that policy does not hold any consequences when it is clearly broken, we are going to have some problems.

 

[Diamond Krono]

Let me just say for the umpteenth time, Bractos needs to be a moderator.