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Scam Feedback (1 Viewer)

Xuande

Xuande

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The feedback system on this site is entirely broken if we can leave feedback for "attempting a deal" because there are people I do not want to sell to. They can message me, get ignored, and leave me negative feedback because they attempted a deal?
There are times when I've stepped away to poop, had to run an errand, or fell asleep on my desk and don't respond to messages in a timely manner- is that worthy of a negative feedback?

To me negative feedback is, "stole my money," "didn't deliver," "item not as described," "took longer than expected," "seller's listed prices were for quantities that they were unable to deliver and offered me less at a higher price," "buyer did a chargeback!"
Not "attempted a deal."
 
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Should I leave negative feedback for first time never seen them before buyers that reach out and ask for a special discount when regular buyers pay the listed price?
They attempted a deal and I rejected them.

But then can they leave negative feedback because I didn't give in to their wants?
They attempted a deal!
 
LOL... Without negative feedback... this community would not be able to bully up and play politics... and it would be drama free! :) ... where's the money and fun in that?!
 
This has already been gone over, someone cannot leave you negative feedback unless you begin negotiation. You can turn away anyone you like.
Direct quote from Redbot.

FreEQ2Play, your ideals are always so skewed towards your so unfortunate past. You made your past, own it, be better for it in the future.
Nobody bullied you - You annoyed enough people they got sick of it and you were reprimanded.
 
The scenario you describe has never happened.

Feedback covers substantial interactions between traders.

There are people who:
  • Repeatedly get deep into trade talks, request very specific details, and then ghost sellers without ever making a purchase. Not once or twice, but hundreds with no purchases.
  • Make sales threads, bump their posts multiple times daily, yet refuse to sell anything to anyone. Literally for months.
  • Are extremely rude.
We've had this conversation a million times and it's not changing.
 
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Reopening the thread, I don't like reading about feedback but if someone has a new take I'll listen.
 
I voted to remove it and trust me when I say, I've had my own red feedback on this site and discussed it at length... at the end of the day... what and how you say it matters... that said, it doesn't stop you from selling on here... just humbles you to be and do better! And I have learned a lot on here in regards to my approach in conducting business and paid my dues... I hope for the best for each of you in this matter!
Click to expand...

Though I've owned mine and moved on, HOW you handled my situation with a new guy breaking into selling on the website was bullying and politics (DK said, "I throw my weight around"), JUST OWN IT LOL; literally redbot called it that too and, furthermore, stated the drama sells LOL... so keep being the salty, immature one here... it's no skin off my teeth bud... Have a great day! :)
 
Diamond Krono said:
The "New guy" with a seven year old account.
Re opening this thread was a mistake Lol. 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

If you're going to still continue to be immature about my scarlet letter (red feedback), then please use the context properly...

a new guy breaking into selling on the website ... I have literally NEVER bought anything from ECTunnel and only began selling on here when COVID happened... I think back in the day, a friend recommended it to me, so I created an account and looked around :) ... so you got me yet again SMH @ how immature you really are! :)

p.s.-- Redbot can verify all of this if you'd like DK because I got nothing to hide :)
 
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It would be cool to see something that both users have to accept before feedback can be left. Like a "Begin Trade" button that works like this:

For example, say I am selling Krono and Redbot wants to buy some. As per normal procedure, Redbot opens a conversation with me and asks if I have Krono for sale.

Now, in my conversation window, there would be a button labeled "Begin trade with Redbot" and in his conversation window "Begin trade with Drognir" - no feedback can be left until a trade is accepted in the following manner:

Pressing this button would reply to the conversation with something like "Redbot would like to begin a trade with you. If you accept, you agree that you are entering a transaction with Redbot, and you will be allowed to leave 1 feedback for each other at any time after you accept this trade request. To accept this trade, click [here]."

On the back end, this would just be a simple database table that stores pairs of user ID's that have accepted a trade, and whether they have left feedback for each other. The feedback system would just run a quick query that asks if the user leaving feedback has engaged in a trade with the other user before allowing feedback to be left.

All that being said, I know the feedback system we are using is a XF addon and would probably be a pain in the ass to work around to do something like this. Just a thought ;).
 
Drognir said:
It would be cool to see something that both users have to accept before feedback can be left. Like a "Begin Trade" button that works like this:

For the esake of argument say I am selling Krono and Redbot wants to buy some. As per normal procedure, Redbot opens a conversation with me and asks if I have Krono for sale.

Now, in my conversation window, there would be a button labeled "Begin trade with Redbot" and in his conversation window "Begin trade with Drognir" - no feedback can be left until a trade is accepted in the following manner:

Pressing this button would reply to the conversation with something like "Redbot would like to begin a trade with you. If you accept, you agree that you are entering a transaction with Redbot, and you will be allowed to leave 1 feedback for each other at any time after you accept this trade request. To accept this trade, click [here]."

On the back end, this would just be a simple database table that stores pairs of user ID's that have accepted a trade, and whether they have left feedback for each other. The feedback system would just run a quick query that asks if the user leaving feedback has engaged in a trade with the other user before allowing feedback to be left.

All that being said, I know the feedback system we are using is a XF addon and would probably be a pain in the ass to work around to do something like this. Just a thought ;).
Click to expand...
ALL OF THIS 100% THIS IS AWESOME!
 
I added an extra word to clarify the feedback rules,

substantially attempted

This is already how we determine if feedback remains, hopefully it's now more clear to users.

I'd like to reiterate that there is no problem of users leaving negative feedback as described in the OP, it simply doesn't happen. If it did, we'd remove each of those cases described as they're not a substantial trade attempt. We don't need to further modify our code or make users go through extra clicks. This is fear over a non-existent problem.

Compare this site to eBay or Amazon, where every big seller has at least a few red marks on their record. On ECT, members are afraid to leave negative feedback, and for good reason: look at the public dragging folks go through who dare leave a critique. That might seem harmless, but there are active sellers in this community with multiple warnings for misinformation, chargebacks, and other shady practices who have 100% perfect feedback.

@Domino76 was a great example,

1659639037268.png


100% perfect feedback. Despite 2+ years of complaints from users, not a single one was brave enough to publicly say anything negative, and someone ended up paying the price.

I routinely have fights with moderators and top traders here about feedback. My goal is to change the culture to be more accepting of critiques, and I don't appear to be winning.
 
By mods he means me... Because I am the one who determines what a reasonable effort for trade is. There is no easy to determine what a reasonable effort for a trade is placed. So I judge it. Sometimes we don't agree and he gets mad at me lol


I do not think our feedback system is broken. I think users not wanting to leave feedback is broken.


I let @Redbot deal with the feedback most of the time because it makes him happy lol but I'm the one that in the end will determine what a reasonable effort for trade is. That's why I tell everyone to keep trades in pm on the site so I can go and read them if needed.
 
Teichou said:
I do not think our feedback system is broken. I think users not wanting to leave feedback is broken.
Click to expand...
I disagree, blaming the users is not correct when it is a systemic problem, this indicates that the platform itself is flawed.

The very premise of "attempted a deal" and "substantially attempted a deal" is 100% entirely subjective to every user. It is the very definition of "grey area" in every sense of the phrase. Encouraging people to leave feedback on anything other than a sale itself is just going to end up with forum mud slinging and a judge and jury in every single situation. No one wants to deal with that, I certainly don't.

I've been on this site for years, Player Auctions before that, Markee Dragon before that, and eBay way back in the ghetto days of 56k dialup. This is the worst rule I've ever seen and I hope an improvement is made in some tangible way. Really made me lose confidence in the rating system and has discouraged wanting to entertain offers via PM whatsoever.

By far and large the admin team here does a good job running this site, I just think this rule needs improvement. In the absence of auctions themselves, there is no 'final sale button' and I get that, but this is so open-ended and up to interpretation that I struggle to comprehend why it was implemented in the first place. If the admin team wishes to continue with this rule, a possible suggestion from me would be to utilize the neutral feedback for non-sale feedback and negative feedback for actual sales. These should be distinguished with clear black/white criteria as to which type of feedback is being left. As it stands, no one uses neutral for much of anything and negative just screams SCAMMER which isn't the intent when people want to warn others of possible issues or potential shady practices to be aware of when transacting with a particular user.
 
Redbot said:
Feedback covers substantial interactions between traders.

There are people who:
  • Repeatedly get deep into trade talks, request very specific details, and then ghost sellers without ever making a purchase. Not once or twice, but hundreds with no purchases.
Click to expand...
This happens every time I post an account for sale. No matter how much detail you provide, there are always detailed questions that sometimes go on over the course of multiple days and then you never hear from them again. I wouldn't leave negative feedback for that. People change their minds, go window shopping, some are indecisive, find something else they are more interested in, maybe decide to get a PL instead, I get it. How is this grounds for negative feedback to be left?
 
L2Phantom said:
This happens every time I post an account for sale. No matter how much detail you provide, there are always detailed questions that sometimes go on over the course of multiple days and then you never hear from them again. I wouldn't leave negative feedback for that. People change their minds, go window shopping, some are indecisive, find something else they are more interested in, maybe decide to get a PL instead, I get it. How is this grounds for negative feedback to be left?
Click to expand...

Redbot states "hundreds" implying that the person is doing it intentionally many many times. It is absolutely grounds for negative feedback be is grey or red.
 
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If 1 guy does it 100 times to 100 different people, it doesn't matter because it did not affect anyone to a substantial degree.
If 1 guy does it 100 times to 1 person, it does affect someone.
 
The feedback voting system is to save mods time with bickering, I think it works fine. Most of us higher end traders have good heads on our shoulders.
Mods simply don't have the time to deal with "he said a mean thing first"

I agree with you, grey feedback should be utilized more often. I am unsure how to draw the line or if one could be drawn, but I think that is a great idea if it can be implemented in a way that is perfectly understandable. Scam/fraud reds, poor language/greys or something like that.
 
I think that seems reasonable, perhaps even to the point that I'm surprised I didn't think of it first. 😂

Red feedback - Scam/Fraud/Did not receive goods, heavy stuff etc
Grey Feedback - Language only, but received the goods, or transaction was not completed at all but no scam/fraud and loss besides time.

Seems reasonable, maybe once a judgment is opened traders are to vote on two things-

1. Should it stick, as how trials are now
2. Should the feedback remain Red, or be changed to Grey.

That seems like a great idea L2
 
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Diamond Krono said:
I think that seems reasonable, perhaps even to the point that I'm surprised I didn't think of it first. 😂

Red feedback - Scam/Fraud/Did not receive goods, heavy stuff etc
Grey Feedback - Language only, but received the goods, or transaction was not completed at all but no scam/fraud and loss besides time.

Seems reasonable, maybe once a judgment is opened traders are to vote on two things-

1. Should it stick, as how trials are now
2. Should the feedback remain Red, or be changed to Grey.

That seems like a great idea L2
Click to expand...
I'm glad you gave it some consideration, it seems like a step in the right direction at least. Red in my eyes is more like scam/fraud territory. Utilizing the under-utilized white/grey feedback seems like a decent mechanism to convey concerns without dropping bombs on people for fairly trivial things.
 
I need to keep in mind how much fun everyone has with feedback dispute threads
Diamond Krono said:
I think that seems reasonable, perhaps even to the point that I'm surprised I didn't think of it first. 😂

Red feedback - Scam/Fraud/Did not receive goods, heavy stuff etc
Grey Feedback - Language only, but received the goods, or transaction was not completed at all but no scam/fraud and loss besides time.

Seems reasonable, maybe once a judgment is opened traders are to vote on two things-

1. Should it stick, as how trials are now
2. Should the feedback remain Red, or be changed to Grey.

That seems like a great idea L2
Click to expand...

That is a good idea
 
That's actually a great point.. Grey means neutral, a so so experience. If someone mouths off that's a bad experience, and there's nothing in-between red and grey.
Now I get why grey is never utilized. A neutral experience is usually no feedback or green. Grey doesn't represent anything.
 
What if someone was 2 minute's late delivering 2 krono to someone on some misc server and they red feedbacked you? Someone mentioned I could get it reversed just didn't know how. Long live the tunnel!
 
twentytwenty said:
What if someone was 2 minute's late delivering 2 krono to someone on some misc server and they red feedbacked you? Someone mentioned I could get it reversed just didn't know how. Long live the tunnel!
Click to expand...
ectunnel.com

Dispute Feedback

If you think you received unjust feedback, you may dispute it
ectunnel.com ectunnel.com

Pay for that and a poll will be put up.
 
I like DK / Drogs ideas as far as the stated rules / colors. Orange is more of a, “Listen, read this, take it as you want, but I wouldn’t say just outright ban the guy.”

Works for me, bring it the polls?
 
I don't think sellers / buyers on ectunnel should be held to any type of standard than any other online marketplace like ebay holds its sellers / buyers.

I sell thousands of items on ebay a year and around 40% of my auctions people just don't pay their winning bids. There is no reason to leave someone negative feedback because they didn't complete a transaction.

The only time negative feedback should be left is when a seller refuses to remedy a problem with goods / services purchased. Goods / services being delivered not as described or delivered after an advertised time frame.

To prevent sellers / buyers from being taken advantage of ebay has the following feedback extortion policy: Buyers aren't allowed to use threats of negative feedback or low detailed seller ratings to try to get something that wasn't part of the original listing. Sellers aren't allowed to demand positive feedback from buyers.


Yall dont gotta make this overly complicated. Some of yall should just be banned from this site for being trolls and starting petty squabbles over lunch money :yawn:
 
Agree and disagree. The big difference being the huge amount of protection that EBay offers to both buyers and sellers. Reputation / feedback / trust within a small-knit community such as this one is incredibly important. If it was easy as a like / dislike system we wouldn’t be able to comment or reply to our feedbacks.

Definitely agree about not leaving negative feedback for a buyer not following through on a transaction. (Think I’ve had about 3 - 4 of these types in the past monthish) I just ignore it and wait for the next buyer to come along.

The one thing that’s hard for me about our current feedback system is to me it’s like, “Guy scammed me for $300 bucks, negative feedback. Guy told me he wasn’t interested in purchasing my account after messaging me, negative feedback.“ Negative feedback in it’s current state can be stuff that’s extremely petty, to things that should have been in the dispute forums.

I’ve noticed an uptick in people openly helping others out (which is great!) and I think enough members holding that type of attitude is what will eventually lead to the feedback system balancing itself out. If everyone’s being polite and professional about their business, no one should be leaving negative feedback on an emotional level.
 
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