Toast Easter Drama Bin (1 Viewer)

[Neqrotik]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

I don't think anyone here makes their entire income from Everquest, so please understand this is a part-time thing for sellers.

When buying from a seller, recognize that they're not at your service 24/7. A delivery might even take a whole freaking hour.

For this reason, I've added a new rule: falsely accusing someone of being a scammer. The penalty is a week-long suspension.

You are welcome to say someone is suspicious. You are welcome to leave negative feedback about slow or missed deliveries. You are welcome to warn others to be cautions about someone with today's reg date and 0 feedback selling $1 Krono.

But outright claiming they're a scammer with 0 evidence needs to stop.

So there is absolutely no obligation of sellers to adequately manage client expectations? Give me a godamned break. If a seller cannot not meet simple and basic buyer (CLIENT I ADD) requirements, then you don't deserve to sell to them.

Stop trying to set an "expectations floor" by intervening in what should be a free market. If the sellers cannot adapt, then buyers pay premiums for quality sellers. If they wish not to pay premiums for quality sellers, then they buy from cheap sellers. End of story.

If sellers wish to be in business, then leave them entire responsibility to know what game they are getting into. Can't handle the heat? Then GTFO out of the kitchen. Work at Chipotle or Starbucks, they have great part-time programs. WITH BENEFITS!

Sure buyers should be held to a standard, but who protects them? All the scammer has to do it make another account on your forums, and fabricate positive reviews.


Look, this is an industry space that has a low barrier to entry. Why? cause there are no standardized and enforceable rules to hold scam sellers to standard. So unless you can adequately provide the buyers some protection, stop jumping the gun to subsidizing the sellers at the expense of buyers.

 

[Redbot]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

Lying about a business is defamation and people are sued for doing so.

If holding people to basic US law isn't free market enough for you, then go to a darknet and trade plat for bitcoins and heroin

 

[Neqrotik]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

Lying about a business is defamation and people are sued for doing so.

If holding people to basic US law isn't free market enough for you, then go to a darknet and trade plat for bitcoins and heroin

You arent reading my post.

MANAGING CLIENT EXPECTATIONS. Take a moment to let that sink in. You wanna babysit a sellers ability to do that, then do so at your own credibility and risk.

ANY service provider who deserves to exist in a free market should understand this. Communication is key. Paint a scenario for us then.

If you wanna go this route, then you need to state the terms of agreement at a sticky thread so that ANY BUYER has a FULL DISCLOSURE of what to expect from SELLERS and what SELLERS should expect from buyers. You dont go on just "pulling out of your ass" some standard that is completely disproportionate and ambiguous.

Cause after ive given someone $400 dollars of my hard earned money, why shouldnt I at least expect a response in a timely manner in which my funds were received. UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES?

You dont have to answer now, but take some time to restructure and rethink on how you want to implement something like this as a LONG TERM solution.

 

[Redbot]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

No, that's stupid.

I'm not going to put up with people crying wolf. It's too much work

 

[Hopeless]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

Not saying who's right and wrong.

I think communication is the key. If there will be some delay, just fyi the buyer to let him/her know, this should help to avoid the bad situation in most of time.

 

[Neqrotik]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

Exactly Hopeless. But. "Its too much work" for the only person who just completely forgot that by virtue of his position as an administrator, this is precisely the kind of work he should stand prepared to put in. What a coward.

 

[Gohast]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

Not saying who's right and wrong.

I think communication is the key. If there will be some delay, just fyi the buyer to let him/her know, this should help to avoid the bad situation in most of time.

Communication for sure. I might not always be in front of my computer but I ALWAYS have my phone. Hell RedGuides even sends me an email when I get a message!

 

[EQTrax]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

Lol @ Neqro, you act like this is comcast customer service or some shit. Cover your ass during transactions, only use reputable sources or else expect it to go sour. Every now and then we all eat a loss, if you don't like it then go earn your own pixels.

 

[Razkle]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

Well Boys and girls, I am a Mod here AND a seller here AND a buyer here and I know from BOTH sides of this coin that Redbot and Redguides is mostly a thankless job! Everytime you buy or sell anything there is risk, no matter if you are the buyer or the seller, of someone trying to scam you. Some people are low life jerks and are only here to scam others. Redguides is as vigilant as it can be to monitor and catch these buttfaced toads! But when you go all insane because other people are not meeting your expectations of what you feel your level of interaction or response is and you go off half cocked and toss out accusations then yeah, its time to have a guidline set in.

NO ONE is forcing any of you to buy or sell here, if redguides bazaar is not a good fit for you then don't use it. If our policies irritate you or you don't like them, then don't buy or sell here. You have choices.

Yes Scammers exist, Yes Redguides like every other site in the market of RMT has to deal with them, Yes we get to make our rules and finally - NO you don't get to cause Drama about shit! Not on our watch!

 

[Neqrotik]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

Well Boys and girls, I am a Mod here AND a seller here AND a buyer here and I know from BOTH sides of this coin that Redbot and Redguides is mostly a thankless job! Everytime you buy or sell anything there is risk, no matter if you are the buyer or the seller, of someone trying to scam you. Some people are low life jerks and are only here to scam others. Redguides is as vigilant as it can be to monitor and catch these buttfaced toads! But when you go all insane because other people are not meeting your expectations of what you feel your level of interaction or response is and you go off half cocked and toss out accusations then yeah, its time to have a guidline set in.

NO ONE is forcing any of you to buy or sell here, if redguides bazaar is not a good fit for you then don't use it. If our policies irritate you or you don't like them, then don't buy or sell here. You have choices.

Yes Scammers exist, Yes Redguides like every other site in the market of RMT has to deal with them, Yes we get to make our rules and finally - NO you don't get to cause Drama about shit! Not on our watch!

Nice. Never addresses the direct question and only calls upon the only right of "its my house and I run it like I want to". Good luck. Ill be stopping my payments to this forum then.

 

[Ghost]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

You arent reading my post.

MANAGING CLIENT EXPECTATIONS. Take a moment to let that sink in. You wanna babysit a sellers ability to do that, then do so at your own credibility and risk.

ANY service provider who deserves to exist in a free market should understand this. Communication is key. Paint a scenario for us then.

If you wanna go this route, then you need to state the terms of agreement at a sticky thread so that ANY BUYER has a FULL DISCLOSURE of what to expect from SELLERS and what SELLERS should expect from buyers. You dont go on just "pulling out of your ass" some standard that is completely disproportionate and ambiguous.

Cause after ive given someone $400 dollars of my hard earned money, why shouldnt I at least expect a response in a timely manner in which my funds were received. UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES?

You dont have to answer now, but take some time to restructure and rethink on how you want to implement something like this as a LONG TERM solution.

Here's a scenario for you that I've had happen personally. Myself (seller) and a buyer are chatting back and forth about a sale. We agree on a price and such I provide payment email wait 5-10 maybe 15 min don't hear any message back no payment received. I assume buyer went afk so then I go to the store at the moment I leave the buyer sends payment for his item and I'm not there to even know it was sent. Should I not be given atlesst an hour of time to provide the delivery or should I be labeled a scammer because I failed to meet the immediately delivery deadline. Obviously this isn't a normal thing but sometimes shit happens so I agree with redbot there's no reason to jump the gun on people for taking a few minutes.

 

[Razkle]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

Oh and before you go all in on "Only Sellers are scammers" That is simply not true! We just had a prominent member SELL his goods for Kronos, then the BUYER charged back the Krono sale and the Seller was then SCAMMED out of his Kronos and his sale items, its not as prevalent as scamming sellers but both sides do it, So Get Verified today and try to deal with verified people or people that have a lot of feedback. Or risk it. It is after all your choice.

People buy things then claim they never got delivered all the time. Again not as many as sellers who just take the money and run, but it is still happening. Either way, stay calm, collect facts and Redguides has your back!

 

[Longbeard]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

The only time this should even be an issue is if the turn over between payment and client info/delivery exceeds 48 hours.


I also feel Red, that you should let BUYERS and SELLERS agree on time frames if it's an issue BETWEEN THEMSELVES.

I had some stuff going on during my last sell but communicated with my buyer. He worked with me and it worked out great for both of us.

 

[Razkle]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

Less Drama, more communication... if you want to know when something will be delivered, ask!

Look I sold a Rogue to a member over 2 weeks ago, I delivered it last night, all along the way, every few days I sent him an update... still leveling, still AAing, finishing up only a few more days left... communicate. I am pretty sure he was 100% ok that he gave me money weeks ago and knew I was good for the delivery, he knew the timeframe going in. I even told him when the updates caused me to lose time but assured him I would get right back to it. No Drama, just good communication.

What Redbot is saying is, trade careful and leave the drama at home! We don't want nor will we put up with excessive drama!

 

[Neqrotik]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

The only time this should even be an issue is if the turn over between payment and client info/delivery exceeds 48 hours.


I also feel Red, that you should let BUYERS and SELLERS agree on time frames if it's an issue BETWEEN THEMSELVES.

I had some stuff going on during my last sell but communicated with my buyer. He worked with me and it worked out great for both of us.

So then there should be a stated standard on communication thresholds right? I mean...leaving the meaning open as they (the mods especially under the auspices of "its too much work") prefer to do is unacceptable. Buyers and sellers should be held to standard as far as communication is concerned. Not only does it help both parties, but it also helps the moderator clearly define where a breach has been made and who should be held responsible. Does not redguides have a standard at all?

Same thing is being implemented with GM's in Everquest. If a breach has been made, logs (player responsibility) are turned over to the GM's and GM's measure logs against EULA rules. Why isn;t the same thing implemented here?

Cmon guys, its about protecting the integrity of a market. Think about it.

 

[jestisp]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

Communication is always key. But neqrotik is right in this one factor....he can stop his payment and leave... Free will.... Granted I never understood this threat. Give in or I take 1/4000th of your income. I only know of two websites with MQ (could be more) and I pay for both. Doubt they would notice if I left.

 

[Neqrotik]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

Communication is always key. But neqrotik is right in this one factor....he can stop his payment and leave... Free will.... Granted I never understood this threat. Give in or I take 1/4000th of your income. I only know of two websites with MQ (could be more) and I pay for both. Doubt they would notice if I left.

You act like there is only 1 out of the stated two I am advocating. I specifically said in my first post that communication is key. Not just the payment factor.

 

[Razkle]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

Me thinks you are missing the real point, the WORK actually means the DRAMA as well as the cleanup from it...

I am not completely on my own, I know exactly what I am talking about.... this is my sandbox. I think you are just somehow offended by this rule and are off on a tangent. You are bordering on overly Dramatizing this thread. So poking at me is really not the smartest thing you could do right now...

I am all about bettering Redguides for all, less drama, more fun and safe realiable trades. When scammers happen we deal with them, when new rules need to be laid out we do it. I guess I need to write a new guide for people to trade like human beings.

WE DO NOT POLICE THE RATE OR QUALITY OF INTERACTIONS ON TRADES! We are here to help if any go south, just make sure they are actually scams, that is the point....

 

[Neqrotik]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

Me thinks you are missing the real point, the WORK actually means the DRAMA as well as the cleanup from it...

I am not completely on my own, I know exactly what I am talking about.... this is my sandbox. I think you are just somehow offended by this rule and are off on a tangent. You are bordering on overly Dramatizing this thread. So poking at me is really not the smartest thing you could do right now...

I am all about bettering Redguides for all, less drama, more fun and safe realiable trades. When scammers happen we deal with them, when new rules need to be laid out we do it. I guess I need to write a new guide for people to trade like human beings.

WE DO NOT POLICE THE RATE OR QUALITY OF INTERACTIONS ON TRADES! We are here to help if any go south, just make sure they are actually scams, that is the point....

Then since you made up this rule, you need to clearly define exactly what constitutes the merit of a breach of trust according to the transaction standards of Redguides. Communication guidelines is a good start that will serve BOTH PARTIES INTERESTS. You dont need to threaten me, the entire reason why you embarked on this effort is on the expected return of your time. You are a service provider. Remember that. If you dont consider our patronage a privilege then you shouldn't be in the service business at all. And it isnt personal bud. Its just business.

Your attitude/approach throughout this whole matter is the SOLE REASON why scammers and rule breakers dont feel like they should be threatened at all.

 

[runordie]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

this policy is about falsely accusing a scammer. it has nothing to do with the standard of communication that is set between a seller and a buyer. redguides is niether a seller nor buyer why would they set that standard

in my opinion, this policy is more of a reminder to use common sense. dont accuse someone of scamming after a few hours. like longbeard said a good general rule is 48 hours. if you dont realize that then you probably shouldnt be trading here

 

[Razkle]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

The rule is SIMPLE, Don't accuse people in the open forum of scamming until you have proof.

All the rest of this thread is you driving your agenda. This thread is NOT about any communications guidelines, it is about the DRAMA caused when people falsely accuse others without proof! So your response is to cause more drama on a separate subject that you arbitrarily attached to the original one?

 

[Razkle]

And here is where the drama ends!

 

[Neqrotik]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

this policy is about falsely accusing a scammer. it has nothing to do with the standard of communication that is set between a seller and a buyer. redguides is niether a seller nor buyer why would they set that standard

read the thread. What exactly is "falsely accusing" a scammer? who determines that? against what standard?

The moderator set this rule, but doesn't provide a frame of reference or clear definition by which both buyers and sellers are aware of in order to hold both to standard.

- - - Updated - - -

The rule is SIMPLE, Don't accuse people in the open forum of scamming until you have proof.

All the rest of this thread is you driving your agenda. This thread is NOT about any communications guidelines, it is about the DRAMA caused when people falsely accuse others without proof! So your response is to cause more drama on a separate subject that you arbitrarily attached to the original one?

Unclear. You need to define what "proof" is.

 

[runordie]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

youre taking this too seriously lol. this is an online forum to trade virtual goods, not a stock exchange. use common sense and trade wisely

 

[Razkle]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

And welcome to locksville

 

[Redbot]

Re: Falsely accusing others of scamming

It's too much work for me. When someone says they're scammed, I spend an hour researching the seller and following their feedback trail. When I learn they're not a scammer, I then have to deal with the ensuing false accusation drama.

We just had a guy who couldn't wait 30 minutes before creating 3 threads accusing someone of scamming. 30 minutes.


Also, fuck you Neqrotik. You don't walk into a bar and badmouth the bartender, then expect him to kiss your ass. You get shown the door.

And the bazaar forum isn't even a "job", we run this for fun. The number of people signing up for verification each month might pay a phone bill, which sucks, but the plus side is we don't have to kiss the ass of pretentious twerps like you.