Dispute Should this feedback L2Phantom left for Eqlewts007 be removed?

[Redbot]

Username(s) of the accused

L2Phantom

This is an official feedback dispute, sponsored by the Ducat shop. After 7 days the votes will be tallied and the most popular judgement upheld. Official feedback rules are found here.

@Eqlewts007 is disputing feedback left by @L2Phantom. Here is a link to the feedback. Note that this link may not work for non-moderators due to the user's privacy settings.

It reads: "Vindictive trader, avoid."

If you are a moderator or staff please do not vote or comment.

 

[Diamond Krono]

The feedback "Vindictive trader" is opinionated and undeterminable, It should be removed. There is no factual basis that can be proven or disproved in this particular sentence.

 

[Easyquest]

I have agreed on deals and sent my details to receive payment only to be ghosted countless times by buyers. Annoying but not worth starting conflict over.

 

[Diamond Krono]

Until either party states their side of what happened, I can only go off the feedback posted.

Statement of feedback - "Vindictive trader, avoid."

This statement does not have meaning, its simply an opinion.

Something like "I paid for x and wasted my time on x etc etc" that is reasonable and at least a statement that has factual basis that can be proven or disproven beyond reasonable doubt.

At this time I will have to vote to remove. You cannot leave someone feedback that states "You like turtles so I don't like you"
Though I in particular do not like turtles, so if you own one I guess watch out.

 

[bractos45]

-Yeah, absolutely remove.

If you ghosted me for that long hoping for a better offer I wouldn't want to conduct any transaction.

I'll add a point later about giving hard-deadlines when trying to do a deal within the guide soon.

 

[FreEQ2Play]

At this time I will have to vote to remove. You cannot leave someone feedback that states "You like turtles so I don't like you"
Though I in particular do not like turtles, so if you own one I guess watch out.

Both agree and found this comical!

 

[L2Phantom]

I have agreed on deals and sent my details to receive payment only to be ghosted countless times by buyers. Annoying but not worth starting conflict over.

Indeed, commonplace which makes the whole issue ridiculous. I quite frankly don't care either way because its so asinine. No payment details transpired throughout the process and its entirely subjective as to how far you can go into a transaction before its deemed to be final. To me, once payment is sent or goods are received, that's the point you're indebted to the sale/trade. There is so much window shopping that occurs I don't hold it against anyone if they stop responding because its so normal.

 

[bractos45]

There is so much window shopping that occurs I don't hold it against anyone if they stop responding because its so normal.

If a buyer quits window shopping sure, but as a seller, you need to set a price and stick with it. If you weren't interesting in selling the account for 20 or 30 Krono (or whatever it is) then you should have gave him the price you were looking for.

If you hook a fish on the end of your line, you reel it in or let it go. Don't drag your customers behind the boat while you look for the next fish, that's why I'm voting in his favor.

That's an agreed transaction.

 

[Gascan]

accidently clicked no .. changed back to yes lol

 

[bractos45]

accidently clicked no .. changed back to yes lol

I actually saw you voted no and was kinda stumped. xD Figure you'd be the first to vote against this haha.

 

[Gascan]

Yeah I was talking to my boss while doing it on my phone.. I'm 100% agree with removing feedback like this.. I even went as far as buying my own dispute today after seeing this one

 

[Eqlewts007]

I have agreed on deals and sent my details to receive payment only to be ghosted countless times by buyers. Annoying but not worth starting conflict over.

Imagine a world where you could have clicked on that persons feedback and seen that they have done that in the past or regularly. You might 1) avoid dealing with that person or 2) set a deadline off the start to manage expectations. Its not to start conflict, its literally the point of feedback/reviews.

 

[L2Phantom]

Imagine a world where you could have clicked on that persons feedback and seen that they have done that in the past or regularly. You might 1) avoid dealing with that person or 2) set a deadline off the start to manage expectations. Its not to start conflict, its literally the point of feedback/reviews.

It is a dangerous precedent to set to say you are subject to negative reviews for deciding not to sell something to someone. With the logic presented here, we are saying it is not ok to walk away from a sale without risking negative feedback. In a virtual marketplace such as this one, you constantly have to be on your toes with scammers or those acting suspiciously. I would 100% abort on a questionable situation and they could leave negative feedback, how is that fair to the seller?

Either way, I'm over this. Delete the feedback and move on with life.

 

[Diamond Krono]

There is no point to a discussion here, "Vindictive trader, avoid" means absolutely nothing.
There is no basis to it. It is not a provable fact.

Had the feedback read "This trader agreed to a sale, then ghosted on me making the transaction with someone else after I moved cash from my bank accepting a charge, and was inconvenienced" than perhaps there is something to talk about and I would maybe have a different opinion.

But the feedback means absolutely nothing, its an opinion. It should be removed, it was not properly stated. It was probably stated with the emotional response of the sale, but does not clarify any wrong doing.

 

[Diamond Krono]

No hard feelings of course, this is just my point of view. The feedback does not deter anyone from doing business with them. It just says "Don't deal with this guy, I don't like him"

 

[Diamond Krono]

I feel like the point of negative feedback is to make traders aware of past occurrences with the individual, avoiding altercations in the future with unaware customers/traders.
If the feedback does not make this awareness, it is not assistive in those regards.

Also, It either wasn't explained or I don't see where you are inconvenienced. This makes it more similar to situation #1 - A krono buyer comes to me and says I'll take 10. I provide info, I get ghosted.
I was not inconvenienced, so I don't leave negative feedback.

I'm on nobody's side, and while I do agree that the "handshake" of a sale did occur, and in some ways might warrant some type of grey/red feedback because it is poor business practice, I can't draw a clear enough line to a definitive notion. We have seen similar issues with "bad business practice" that slides for a while, but when it is done repetitiously, the line is easier to draw and usually results in a red eventually.

Perhaps consider moving it to grey feedback stating the trade was accepted and the supplier backed out without letting you know, and explaining how you were inconvenienced. That would probably be more understandable to the community and still give a heads up to future traders.

In the end I play EverQuest. /shrug

 

[Eqlewts007]

I feel like the point of negative feedback is to make traders aware of past occurrences with the individual, avoiding altercations in the future with unaware customers/traders.
If the feedback does not make this awareness, it is not assistive in those regards.

Also, It either wasn't explained or I don't see where you are inconvenienced. This makes it more similar to situation #1 - A krono buyer comes to me and says I'll take 10. I provide info, I get ghosted.
I was not inconvenienced, so I don't leave negative feedback.

I'm on nobody's side, and while I do agree that the "handshake" of a sale did occur, and in some ways might warrant some type of grey/red feedback because it is poor business practice, I can't draw a clear enough line to a definitive notion. We have seen similar issues with "bad business practice" that slides for a while, but when it is done repetitiously, the line is easier to draw and usually results in a red eventually.

Perhaps consider moving it to grey feedback stating the trade was accepted and the supplier backed out without letting you know, and explaining how you were inconvenienced. That would probably be more understandable to the community and still give a heads up to future traders.

In the end I play EverQuest. /shrug

100% agree with you. Like I said in the original discussion, if it wasnt clear in his follow on emails and what hes posted here, he believes reniging on handshakes deals is normal and accepted practice or I wouldnt have bother posting it.

 

[Eqlewts007]

It is a dangerous precedent to set to say you are subject to negative reviews for deciding not to sell something to someone. With the logic presented here, we are saying it is not ok to walk away from a sale without risking negative feedback. In a virtual marketplace such as this one, you constantly have to be on your toes with scammers or those acting suspiciously. I would 100% abort on a questionable situation and they could leave negative feedback, how is that fair to the seller?

Either way, I'm over this. Delete the feedback and move on with life.

Nobody is saying to not abort a questionable situation. Ideally, you vet that beforehand, but by all means walk away if it starts to smell shady. However, that is nowhere near where this was. Most of us posting have a significant number of transactions, and would probably agree the ghosting and soft bites are the most annoying thing we deal with. Id love to know someone is a ghoster to save myself the time energy and effort to avoid.

 

[Diamond Krono]

In a virtual marketplace such as this one, you constantly have to be on your toes with scammers or those acting suspiciously. I would 100% abort on a questionable situation and they could leave negative feedback, how is that fair to the seller?

Could you site an example of how this happened in this situation? That would clear the air a bit and give more understanding.
Perhaps one of you should post the entire conversation.

 

[L2Phantom]

Could you site an example of how this happened in this situation?

It is not a direct apples and oranges comparison, it is simply a concern as a seller that it could be used against me in the future with individuals such as this.

 

[Diamond Krono]

I mention it because you gave an example that under that condition it would not be fair to the seller. Does that mean since he did not act with scamming nature, that this is fair feedback against you?

 

[Diamond Krono]

The current feedback on you states

"Agreed to a sale, waited for a better offer and sold"​

That feedback is acceptable if accurate. The only question is if it warrants red feedback, though it is absolutely acceptable if that did occur since it can be proven or disproven.
when I say acceptable, I mean that it can be ran through judgment and possibly stick.

Your feedback states that this particular trader is Vindictive. In what way is he vindictive? By trying to purchase from you, after you agreed to sell it to him, perhaps he gets excited, prepared, moves around some cash, high fives the wife, you turn around and sell to someone else?

I am open to being swayed that he is vindictive if you can give plausible reasoning. I'm more than happy to change my vote if you show me a screenshot of him saying he's gonna grab your leg out from under the bed like the boogy man.

 

[L2Phantom]

I mention it because you gave an example that under that condition it would not be fair to the seller. Does that mean since he did not act with scamming nature, that this is fair feedback against you?

Apparently we can leave negative feedback for whatever we want regardless if a sale took place, so it sounds fair to me. Case closed, close the curtain.

 

[Diamond Krono]

There are guild lines that must be followed in the policy.

A sale does not have to have taken place, an attempt on a sale does.
This is a clear attempt on a sale.

 

[Diamond Krono]

Apparently we can leave negative feedback for whatever we want regardless if a sale took place, so it sounds fair to me. Case closed, close the curtain.

If you could leave negative feedback for whatever you wanted, there would not be a vote with 12 people voting to remove it.

 

[FreEQ2Play]

I voted to remove it and trust me when I say, I've had my own red feedback on this site and discussed it at length... at the end of the day... what and how you say it matters... that said, it doesn't stop you from selling on here... just humbles you to be and do better! And I have learned a lot on here in regards to my approach in conducting business and paid my dues... I hope for the best for each of you in this matter!

 

[Eqlewts007]

ranger - 20 kr

Thanks, will keep it in mind over the next few days if it doesn't sell.

i could do 22kr. if youre gonna hold out long than today let me know so i can grab that 500aa ranger for 12. tired of not having pred/hunter and i retired my BL

I will probably try to get more then that, but I definitely understand, ranger buffs are sick!

What buyout are you looking for. I see you sold the sk

I've got prices in the thread now. The account has a 70 cleric w/ around 150 AA and a 70 mage on it as well.

30kr?

I got a $300 offer at the moment (about equal), might drop price in a few days if it doesn't sell, will let you know. Thanks for the interest

Gotya. Slide my offer up to 33kr

a day or 2 later

If you're still in the market for a ranger I'll take the 33 KR offer, let me know when you're around.

immediate

lm around.

immediate

did the account have any suspensions on it

immediate

Oh no way, they're all clean and fresh!

immediate

cool. who do you want the krono sent to and ill take the info here.

Few hours later

get lost =P ?

immediate

I got a full price offer yesterday morning so I took it, thank you for the interest though.

 

[FreEQ2Play]

If you're still in the market for a ranger I'll take the 33 KR offer, let me know when you're around.

Here's the reason, we should remove the negative feedback against EQlewts007... period.

 

[yamahaman]

Remove