Implemented We need to stop the reply bumping and new thread creation bumping (1 Viewer)

[klesko]

We really need to stop two things which are getting out of control.

This is for the EverQuest Krono forums

• Replying to a thread should not bump the thread any longer
  • This is happening a ton right now. Sellers are asking people to reply bump their threads, or working with other sellers to reply bump each other threads. This is bypassing the internal bump timer.
• You should not be able to delete your thread and create a new one to bypass the bump timer

 

[Diamond Krono]

Thread closed

 

[klesko]

That's not true at all - I am not sure why this is even being talked about
View attachment 29760

Just tried it- There is a limit.

Your reply was the last reply. The timer is only there because you are trying to reply to your reply. If I comment on your thread the timer goes away for you.

 

[Redbot]

Let me make it clear there are TWO request here.

1. Replying to a thread should not bump the thread any longer
2. You should not be able to delete your thread and create a new one to bypass the bump timer

Both of these ideas create many issues with the forum software.

I'm leaning towards a harsher limit on the # of replies in sales forums, and a harsher limit on # of threads per week in sales forums. Perhaps 3 or 4.

 

[Drognir]

Bump

 

[Redbot]

We could also just force default to "bumped threads",

here's a peek at the krono forum with this sort option:

EverQuest Krono

Purchase Krono in EverQuest, which are used for all Daybreak games

ectunnel.com

this breaks our "auto bump" options in the ducat shop, though I can try rewriting them.

 

[klesko]

We could also just force default to "bumped threads",

here's a peek at the krono forum with this sort option:

EverQuest Krono

Purchase Krono in EverQuest, which are used for all Daybreak games

ectunnel.com

this breaks our "auto bump" options in the ducat shop, though I can try rewriting them.

Its not a bad compromise really and seems much easier for you guys to do.

 

[Drognir]

We could also just force default to "bumped threads",

here's a peek at the krono forum with this sort option:

EverQuest Krono

Purchase Krono in EverQuest, which are used for all Daybreak games

ectunnel.com

this breaks our "auto bump" options in the ducat shop, though I can try rewriting them.

Ownedcore has a neat feature that I believe could solve some of the drama that's going on with regard to bumps. They hold weekly "sticky thread" auctions, allowing sellers to bid for the sticky thread in each sub category (Krono, Accounts, WTB, etc). Perhaps you could implement such a feature, which allows sellers to bid with Ducats to have their sales thread stickied each week. While this wouldn't completely solve the problem, it would allow a seller to have their thread at the top at all times, if it were worth it to them. Sort of a "put your money where your mouth is" type situation. These Ducats could then be used by RedBot to buy Krono for his giveaways, or however he sees fit.

 

[Ctalbus]

Ownedcore has a neat feature that I believe could solve some of the drama that's going on with regard to bumps. They hold weekly "sticky thread" auctions, allowing sellers to bid for the sticky thread in each sub category (Krono, Accounts, WTB, etc). Perhaps you could implement such a feature, which allows sellers to bid with Ducats to have their sales thread stickied each week. While this wouldn't completely solve the problem, it would allow a seller to have their thread at the top at all times, if it were worth it to them. Sort of a "put your money where your mouth is" type situation. These Ducats could then be used by RedBot to buy Krono for his giveaways, or however he sees fit.

This seems like too much of a "pay for space" thing. Which is not good for diversity. You see this in grocery stores where it's nearly impossible to get your product in view of customers because the big boys have enough money to make sure you aren't visible to anyone else. Let peoples product speak for itself.

I don't know if it sounds like I care or don't care about this subject. I think it's just weird because it means we are all assuming that people buying krono aren't smart enough to look beyond the top 3 or 4 posts for krono selling? I don't know because, again, I am not in the krono selling business. Mostly, because I hate how immediate a lot of the customers are. They want you to respond immediately, but then they will take hours to respond back to you sometimes lol. It's not fun so I appreciate all of you that put up with that!

By now, I assume a good majority of my deals are repeat customers so I don't really care if my post is at the top. If I have stuff that someone wants, they'll see my post. But, I know that the krono selling thing is an entirely different monster.

My real opinion is that whatever it is, it just should be equal. Things should be done/used as they were intended. If you're allowed to delete and repost the same post 10 times a week, then just turn it into a "strategy" that everyone knows about instead.

No reason for any of this to feel weird or shady or one person feeling like they're getting shafted. Maybe if we just clarified the rules/intentions a little bit, then that could help? Maybe just tell everyone exactly their limits and let them do whatever they want after that. Would it be bad if everyone knew and had the same ability to get their post to the top?

I don't know. I just got home and smoked so there's my high ramble. Hopefully I didn't say anything too stupid!

 

[Diamond Krono]

Dorgnirs idea seems like it would really help the site in general, and has been implemented elsewhere.
I'm always looking for new ways to support management.

 

[CallanLej]

We really need to stop two things which are getting out of control.

This is for the EverQuest Krono forums

• Replying to a thread should not bump the thread any longer
  • This is happening a ton right now. Sellers are asking people to reply bump their threads, or working with other sellers to reply bump each other threads. This is bypassing the internal bump timer.
• You should not be able to delete your thread and create a new one to bypass the bump timer

I think this post got so much backlash because you made not reference to working on changing. It sounds like you are telling people they need to stop while you do it yourself. Wording is the only way to judge someone's demeaner in text.

 

[CallanLej]

I just want to say Diamond is hacking the bump system to have 1000 feed back in 2 and half years!

Oldest seller beat by a new guy ouch sorry sorry

 

[klesko]

I think this post got so much backlash because you made not reference to working on changing. It sounds like you are telling people they need to stop while you do it yourself. Wording is the only way to judge someone's demeaner in text.

Sorry if it was not clear. I was asking for a forums program change where replies dont bump threads anymore. Redbot responded with his suggestion that the forum default sorts by thread maker bumping only.

I just want to say Diamond is hacking the bump system to have 1000 feed back in 2 and half years!

Oldest seller beat by a new guy ouch sorry sorry

I lost about 400 feedback when the site was moved to ectunnel.com a few years back before both your times

 

[HappyKrono]

We could also just force default to "bumped threads",

here's a peek at the krono forum with this sort option:

EverQuest Krono

Purchase Krono in EverQuest, which are used for all Daybreak games

ectunnel.com

this breaks our "auto bump" options in the ducat shop, though I can try rewriting them.

If the original idea was not able to be done I can see this being helpful as well. Im all for anything to reduce the bump manipulation

 

[Diamond Krono]

Ok so, I think we all agree the only possible move is to delete the ability to self bump through your own thread.
That is the only fix that makes sense. It's important to have customers comment on your thread and thus it bumps it because you are actively selling.
That is obvious.

 

[HappyKrono]

Ok so, I think we all agree the only possible move is to delete the ability to self bump through your own thread.
That is the only fix that makes sense. It's important to have customers comment on your thread and thus it bumps it because you are actively selling.
That is obvious.

It is not obvious to me, In my opinion asking customers to bump your thread for you is just another form of manipulation. In the thousands of sales I have done I have only had a hand full of customers bump my thread for the purpose of just bumping it. Which is telling me sellers are actively solicitating bumps. I counted 7 extra bumps on Diamonds thread yesterday alone from this method, so what is my alternative ? Now I have to get on the same level and start and ad campaign to my customers to manipulate bumps so I can compete? Doesn't seem right.

 

[Diamond Krono]

It is not obvious to me, In my opinion asking customers to bump your thread for you is just another form of manipulation. In the thousands of sales I have done I have only had a hand full of customers bump my thread for the purpose of just bumping it. Which is telling me sellers are actively solicitating bumps. I counted 7 extra bumps on Diamonds thread yesterday alone from this method, so what is my alternative ? Now I have to get on the same level and start and ad campaign to my customers to manipulate bumps so I can compete? Doesn't seem right.

Two things.

I have worked very hard on being the best seller possible. I spend countless hours working and critiquing to make sure I can provide the best possible experience. If you are unable to get feedback It would seem it is an issue with your customer service. Why push that on me, your opinion appears bias.

Also, it is incorrect to assume I am soliciting anything for the pure purpose of bumping my ad. Even if you said that was true which it most certainly is not, and is a direct attack on my character, I want the feedback. End of story.

 

[Diamond Krono]

This is business, this is about the customer. You are making this about you frankly. Throwing around assumptions at people on ec tunnel is not appropriate behavior.

 

[Diamond Krono]

1. Nobody is abusing the delete post repost. I keep track of everything that goes on here. It just isn't a thing.
The only people who delete posts are taking it down then putting it back up much later. It doesn't need fixing.
On top of that there is a separate counter lockout for that as well SHOULD someone ever abuse it.

2. Bumping your own post should probably be removed entirely.

3. You can't remove customer feedback and bumps, they are actively selling. therefore pushing them down in line only makes krono purchasing frustrating when jimbob is afk at the top 5 and Kronolevel can't bump his posts even though he has krono to sell. That is why this was put into affect in the first place.

 

[Elysian Services]

I agree to the fact that Commenting on a post shouldn't bump it or at least Self commenting.

One change i could suggest that im sure others have in the past. is bumps per a thread rather than per an account. As someone with 3 posts for group toons, raid toons, and progression services I really get once a day to bump them to the top which in all honesty is fine I can work with that but every now and then I toss something new up (currently selling krono now cuz bills) that takes prio over my other posts but then I lose one of my posts to the abyss of posts. If each post was allowed 2 bumps in a 24 or hour time limit i think it would solve some issues to an extent. If this were to become a reality I would also agree to the fact that harsher crack downs on posts per a week would be required as now people have more bumps per a thread. 3 posts a week is what i would put it at personally as thats really all that youre bumping to the top atm but that decision is above my pay grade . I have come across some peoples posts in the past and its literally just pages of comments that say bump and its like /sigh. I dont think this should be enforced onto customers not completely. As i do appreciate when people will leave a reply on my posts about their experience even if they left me feedback. It leaves a written note that people looking at the post can read through to get a feel for the seller. My 2 cents on the matter.

Whatever comes of it we'll adjust in the grand scheme of things

 

[Diamond Krono]

Giving 2 bumps per day is a not a good idea. What happens when you have krono to sell and you bump, then 4 people bump after you during business hours. Your screwed the rest of the day?
More bumps is always better period. Nobody here is abusing anything. We all have enough bumps to stretch our arms out, and nobody here intentionally over bumps anyone else.

I make a point not to bump to the top for a time as to not overcrowd the forum. Everyone else follows this guideline just fine. Even when it happens it is always by mistake, 2 people bump at once etc.

Fixing an issue by constricting bumps is not going to resolve any issue, just create frustration.

 

[Diamond Krono]

Self commenting should be deleted entirely probably - I guarantee this is the only real issue if there even is one.

 

[bractos45]

Since I’m in no way / have never been a Krono seller (minus a few handfuls here and there) I’ll be honest and give an outsider opinion here.

If I’m purchasing Krono, I don’t look at the most recently bumped thread. I figure out how much I want, how much I’m willing to spend, then start sorting sellers to who is online.

The “who is online” is normally about 99% of the deciding factor. If I’m in need of Kronos, it typically means my main team literally just ran out and I need to re-up them. If I’m needing plat for w/e reason (not typically but still) I’m also not super patient and just look for whose online.

I know we have a way to see the online status by checking the profile associated with the post, but, I also wish there was a way to check for this. Or at least be able to filter out the currently offline sellers. Bumping a thread to the top, not making any sales within an hour, then going offline doesn’t help anyone out at all.

Now, the deleting threads and recreating new ones, shouldn’t be allowed. No idea on how to “stop this”. Maybe limiting each seller to create 1 Krono thread every x amount of days / weeks while allowing a higher limit for accounts / items / plat? But again, I feel this hurts the advertisement. I like to see a thread that has 2 - 3 pages of the feedback responses. I’d say most people do the same when making a purchase.

EDIT: as an example, I recently purchased some Kronos from DK. However I’ll be open and say he was not the first seller I messaged. I messaged another seller asking if they were available. Waited roughly an hour then saw that DK was online. I’m about 100% positive I scrolled past 10-15 other posts before finding his, seeing DK was online, then making the purchase. More online time = more sales. I know we all watch messages / replies, but if it doesn’t actively show you online, you’re missing out on a lot more sales because of that, not necessarily because your post isn’t at the top.

 

[klesko]

@Redbot

We still planning to do this? I watched and since this thread was made one person is abusing the system far more than others mostly with reply bumps.

 

[Redbot]

We're almost ready for a vote.

The easiest route for me will be limiting threads / posts. Current limits:

premium:

10 threads / week

30 posts / day

registered:

4 threads / week

5 posts / day

I propose new limits across all non-discussion forums:

premium:

4 threads / week

5 posts / week

registered

2 threads / week

2 posts / week

 

[klesko]

We're almost ready for a vote.

The easiest route for me will be limiting threads / posts. Current limits:

premium:

10 threads / week

30 posts / day

registered:

4 threads / week

5 posts / day

I propose new limits across all non-discussion forums:

premium:

4 threads / week

5 posts / week

registered

2 threads / week

2 posts / week

What about the reply bumping? Thats the biggest issue, can we do the default sort by thread creator bumped like you mentioned before?

 

[Diamond Krono]

Just make it so someone cant reply bump their own post. Case solved.

 

[Diamond Krono]

Still yet to see 5 people ask for a vote.

 

[klesko]

Just make it so someone cant reply bump their own post. Case solved.

People replying to their own post is not the major issue right now.

Its people telling their buyers, to reply to their post after a sale which bumps their post.

 

[Diamond Krono]

That is put in place to move active sellers up. All your doing is asking this site to accommodate your sell ratio.

 

[Redbot]

We have enough to go to vote. I counted the following users are supporters of change:

We really need to stop two things which are getting out of control.

This is for the EverQuest Krono forums

• Replying to a thread should not bump the thread any longer
  • This is happening a ton right now. Sellers are asking people to reply bump their threads, or working with other sellers to reply bump each other threads. This is bypassing the internal bump timer.
• You should not be able to delete your thread and create a new one to bypass the bump timer

These would be cool fixes, but can you also stop claiming to be oldest seller when people have join dates half a decade before you?

I agree and support these changes.

I'm on board with the part about deleting and recreating a thread to bypass the bump timer - should not be allowed.

Sellers organizing with each other to coordinate pricing and/or bump each others threads - should not be allowed.

Buyers/potential buyers comments? No issues with these comments bumping, I believe they have a several day cool down before it will bump a second time. For the large number of unverified users, it is the only way of providing any feedback on services received.

I agree to the fact that Commenting on a post shouldn't bump it or at least Self commenting.

One change i could suggest that im sure others have in the past. is bumps per a thread rather than per an account. As someone with 3 posts for group toons, raid toons, and progression services I really get once a day to bump them to the top which in all honesty is fine I can work with that but every now and then I toss something new up (currently selling krono now cuz bills) that takes prio over my other posts but then I lose one of my posts to the abyss of posts. If each post was allowed 2 bumps in a 24 or hour time limit i think it would solve some issues to an extent. If this were to become a reality I would also agree to the fact that harsher crack downs on posts per a week would be required as now people have more bumps per a thread. 3 posts a week is what i would put it at personally as thats really all that youre bumping to the top atm but that decision is above my pay grade . I have come across some peoples posts in the past and its literally just pages of comments that say bump and its like /sigh. I dont think this should be enforced onto customers not completely. As i do appreciate when people will leave a reply on my posts about their experience even if they left me feedback. It leaves a written note that people looking at the post can read through to get a feel for the seller. My 2 cents on the matter.

Whatever comes of it we'll adjust in the grand scheme of things

I think the sort order is a better solution, I just need to make a way for hyper sellers have an option to stay bumped.

 

[klesko]

I think the sort order is a better solution, I just need to make a way for hyper sellers have an option to stay bumped.

I am fine with this as long as its equal chances. If seller A gets 10 bumps, then other top sellers should get 10 bumps as well.

If its possible could add additional bumps in the ducat shop. Like is there is 4 free bumps like now, then can buy extra bumps per day in packs of 2 up to 10 total for the month IMO.

This would allow more "hyper" sellers to bump more, they can afford to buy the bumps since they are making more.

 

[Diamond Krono]

Klesko has a good idea here I think - Let me think about it

 

[KronoLevel]

I am fine with this as long as its equal chances. If seller A gets 10 bumps, then other top sellers should get 10 bumps as well.

If its possible could add additional bumps in the ducat shop. Like is there is 4 free bumps like now, then can buy extra bumps per day in packs of 2 up to 10 total for the month IMO.

This would allow more "hyper" sellers to bump more, they can afford to buy the bumps since they are making more.

imo not balanced for everyone. I dont like a pay more for more bumps idea. I think all sales thread should be pay per week to even keep posted and all bumping should be strictly limited to one person getting 3 bumps per day and only on their own threads. but if that cant be done. oh well. life will find a way!

 

[Diamond Krono]

" I think all sales thread should be pay per week to even keep posted "

Can you give an example, I'm having trouble understanding

 

[KronoLevel]

" I think all sales thread should be pay per week to even keep posted "

Can you give an example, I'm having trouble understanding

yeah just like craiglist when you post an auto ad you have to pay 5 dollars and the ad lasts a certain amount of days then if you want to keep it you have to pay again.

 

[Diamond Krono]

So its just an extra tax with no upside.

 

[KronoLevel]

So its just an extra tax with no upside.

its to help support the forum lol. and its a barrier to entry some of the scammers wont pay for.

 

[Diamond Krono]

Yeah but it demolishes small sellers.

 

[KronoLevel]

Yeah but it demolishes small sellers.

small sellers selling items worth like under a krono or something? do those exist?

 

[KronoLevel]

plenty of small sellers on every single forum that sells things and charges to post with classifieds etc including the newspaper lol. Never stopped any small sellers from selling. I used to post ads in the news paper all the time when I was younger before the internet really took off. they always charged me. I was as small time as you can get.