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Dispute Should this feedback Xuande left for Everquestmadesimple be removed? (1 Viewer)

Should this feedback Xuande left for Everquestmadesimple be removed?

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Teichou

Teichou

The First Men
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Username(s) of the accused
Xuande
⚖️ This is an official feedback dispute, sponsored by the Ducat shop. After 7 days the votes will be tallied and the most popular judgement upheld. Official feedback rules are found here. 🧑‍⚖️

@Everquestmadesimple is disputing feedback left by @Xuande
Here is a link to the feedback. Note that this link may not work for non-moderators due to the user's privacy settings.

It reads:

❌ Deceptive advertising; Listed Krono price is lower than he's willing to fulfill and admitted in DMs that it was a ploy to draw in customers.​


If you are a moderator or staff please do not vote or comment.
 
Thank you for posting about this. Here's the entire conversation log along with an explanation.
Advertising a price lower than you're willing to sell for is bad-faith participation in the community.

I sell krono throughout the year and restock my personal bank by spreading some of the love back into the community. This gentleman proceeded to smear my reputation as retribution so the feedback has stayed up.

EMS-1.png

EMS-2.png

EMS-3.png
 
^ taken out of context he left the part out where i told him i didnt want to sell to him personally because he told me he has been banned in the past. I was more than willing to sell the prices i auctioned to anybody else that was not banned in the past and i trusted.

Xuande is a krono reseller, He was angry he couldnt get my bulk of 450 kronos at a major discount so he gave me negative feedback. I personally believe he deserves some type of punishment for maliciously giving me negative feedback because he didnt get his way.
 
How is the entire conversation that occurred between us "taking it out of context"? If you have additional screenshots of the conversation where you said these things then please share them.

It seems that you're utilizing DARVO and trying to rewrite history. You advertised a lower price than you'd fulfill "as a marketing ploy" and wouldn't fulfill at the advertised price. It's simple.

You can call me a krono reseller if you want. Some of the bigger sellers are resellers that depend on Krono arbitrage so I don't see how it's an insult.
Personally, I wouldn't spend my time doing this if I were making $1-$2 per krono. I sell the krono that I earn in game at my prices and buy bulk krono at a cheaper rate for personal use. I get more use out of my money and reinject some into the community.
If that doesn't make sense to you then I can't help you understand this crazy world.
 
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I feel the facts are laid out plain and clear. xuande the reseller wanted a deal he didnt get and he maliciously gave negative feedback because of it. It's clear I didnt want to sell to him because I didnt trust him and saw him as a volatile trader. If any of my positive feedback members are able to testify ive sold amounts of 1,2,5,10,50, even 150 kronos in a sale in the past. I've always been willing to sell what i price if i trust the buyer. I've never resold a krono before and i produce all my own in game. There was never even a transaction between the two of us. I believe the way this works though is the community has 7 days to decide. I have nothing further to add as I believe everything is quite clear by this point.
 
ezgamingups said:
I think he shouldn't get negative feedback for not wanting to sell at someone else's desired price.
Click to expand...

He advertised 8.50 as his title and in his thread. He says that he wasn't in a rush to sell and his target price was 9.50.

He wouldn't honor his advertised price. Everything after has been lies to justify that.
 
What I see here.

Seller lists 8.5 bulk.

Buyer: will you do 7.5 per krono.

Seller: not at this time.

Buyer: leaves negative feedback.

Yes he did say he prefers to get 9.5 but never did you offer to buy bulk at his 8.5. He never said no to his advertised price. He said no to your 7.5 each and did say he rather get 9.5. You can assume he wouldn't take 8.5 maybe but you never actually make an offer for 8.5 each. But reading these texts you obviously offered 7.5 each and he said no. You never actually upped your price. You just asked oh you won't sell at advertised and he was probably already done talking to you at that point lol.

If you had clearly made an offer to pay 8.5 for x amount then I would see the issue. But it sounds like you were only paying 7.5.
 
I took a while to consider both sides, here is my conclusion.

Remove distractions -

The Question: Is this deceptive advertising?

Anyone can deny a sale to anyone for any reason.
I can deny Xaunde krono because I am flying to the moon later tonight. My reasoning does not have to be accurate at all whatsoever. This is protected by policy stating
that a seller may deny a sale for any reason at any time.
Why or why not the poster would sell to buyer has no bearing in the argument. It has nothing to do with the original question about deceptive advertising.

What we know did occur as fact:

Title to Seller's original advertisement --> WTS KRONO 8.50 - ONLINE NOW etc.

The issue:
The first message in the conversation from Seller states: "It is more of a 'Marketing Ploy' to be honest."


ploy1.PNG


This has nothing to do with why or why not the trader would sell to Xaunde, or for what reason.
The issue is the advertisement thread publicly posted was admitted to being a "Marketing Ploy" via the original poster.

We have to decide what this means - The point you are trying to reach is getting beyond reasonable doubt.



What we know, not open to scrutiny, discussion, or interpretation:

1. Trader admits to the advertisement being a "Marketing Ploy"

Break it down as math:

The original question: Do we believe the trader beyond a reasonable doubt that they are willing to sell these krono at the advertised price.
Answer: In order to purchase krono at the advertised price, the advertisement must then not be a "Marketing Ploy"

Seller has admitted to the advertisement being a Marketing Ploy in the first sentence. We have a type A and B problem. You cannot reach B, because there is no A.
Any issues after the fact is irrelevant because you cannot reach them until you get passed A.

2. We can try to take the Sellers side.

If I look over the fact that it is not typical to be required to purchase 400+ krono to achieve a price ( Which is much more unlikely than say a 3-10 or 11-20 spread ) this can't be proven or disproven as unlikely as it may be, since we do not know his circumstances. It is absolutely possible he would be willing to sell 400+ in the right situation.

The problem we run into again however, is still we cannot reach B because of A.




I see things literally, that is my take as I do not care about the emotional side of business. I do not believe that negative feedback should be left carelessly,
but I do believe here it is justified.

-Diamond Krono 💍
 
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I read "marketing ploy" more as a its unlikely people will buy the amount of krono required for the price to be 8.50, but they can technically get krono for $ 8.50.

I don't see him saying marketing ploy as a "gotcha". I am just going off the info here. I didn't read his post and I don't know if he listed how many krono needed to be bought for them to be $ 8.50.

Does he list the amount of bulk needed to be purchased for them to be $ 8.50 or is it just through messages?
 
Pretty simple issue towards grounds for removal IF you would’ve just said no to the bulk offer, instead of making a counter offer for higher than your advertised price.

DK did a good job pointing out the big Issues here.

Also, claiming you never “resell Kronos” is a completely moot point. Unless you are personally purchasing Kronos with your own credit card, they are ”resold“ in one fashion or the other. (Plat or RMT)

Easiest solution to problem is this; Guys, QUIT advertising your products for ANY amount less than what you are comfortable to take. Asking $8.50 then saying you’re in no rush to sell is completely counter-intuitive. Even though Xuande posted a lower offer to what you were asking, rebutting with a higher price than advertised (even if you hate resellers) will almost always lead to a negative feedback. Advertising at a cheaper-than-normal market rate is of course going to attract the attention of the bigger sellers / resellers here. If you want to sell “slow and safe”, sell batches of like 25 - 50 for $9.50 a pop or w/e.

And (as DK has pointed out) using words like ploy within your own business model are things typically businesses try and avoid.
 
Semi-Related note here in regards to Krono Sales / Advertising.

I think most Krono Sellers do a good job to be completely transparent about their prices. As someone who doesn’t sell Kronos, but occasionally buys some off of ECT I’ll say there’s nothing more annoying then clicking on a link for $8.50 advertised Krono, only to find out I have to buy an insane amount to get to that price point. In fact, even if I’m willing to spend the $10 - $11 per Krono, I’ll almost always avoid transactions with folks using this type of “dirty advertising” within their threads; which is exactly what it is.

People spending their own cash can see shady s**t a mile away. The Krono Market is no stranger to this.
 
The reason i said it was a marketing ploy right off the bat was to get xuande off my back because i realized he was a krono reseller and i didnt want to sell to him. I was trying to save him time trying to convince me to sell to him so i was short and just said that to get it clear he wont buy from me. when i found out he was banned in the past i really didnt want to sell to him then.
 
bractos45 said:
Pretty simple issue towards grounds for removal IF you would’ve just said no to the bulk offer, instead of making a counter offer for higher than your advertised price.

DK did a good job pointing out the big Issues here.

Also, claiming you never “resell Kronos” is a completely moot point. Unless you are personally purchasing Kronos with your own credit card, they are ”resold“ in one fashion or the other. (Plat or RMT)

Easiest solution to problem is this; Guys, QUIT advertising your products for ANY amount less than what you are comfortable to take. Asking $8.50 then saying you’re in no rush to sell is completely counter-intuitive. Even though Xuande posted a lower offer to what you were asking, rebutting with a higher price than advertised (even if you hate resellers) will almost always lead to a negative feedback. Advertising at a cheaper-than-normal market rate is of course going to attract the attention of the bigger sellers / resellers here. If you want to sell “slow and safe”, sell batches of like 25 - 50 for $9.50 a pop or w/e.

And (as DK has pointed out) using words like ploy within your own business model are things typically businesses try and avoid.
Click to expand...
he never asked for 8.50 which i advertised, he asked for 7.50
 
Diamond Krono said:
I took a while to consider both sides, here is my conclusion.

Remove distractions -

The Question: Is this deceptive advertising?

Anyone can deny a sale to anyone for any reason.
I can deny Xaunde krono because I am flying to the moon later tonight. My reasoning does not have to be accurate at all whatsoever. This is protected by policy stating
that a seller may deny a sale for any reason at any time.
Why or why not the poster would sell to buyer has no baring in the argument. It has nothing to do with the original question about deceptive advertising.

What we know did occur as fact:

Title to Seller's original advertisement --> WTS KRONO 8.50 - ONLINE NOW etc.

The issue:
The first message in the conversation from Seller states: "It is more of a 'Marketing Ploy' to be honest."


View attachment 40717

This has nothing to do with why or why not the trader would sell to Xaunde, or for what reason.
The issue is the advertisement thread publicly posted was admitted to being a "Marketing Ploy" via the original poster.

We have to decide what this means - The point you are trying to reach is getting beyond reasonable doubt.



What we know, not open to scrutiny, discussion, or interpretation:

1. Trader admits to the advertisement being a "Marketing Ploy"

Break it down as math:

The original question: Do we believe the trader beyond a reasonable doubt that they are willing to sell these krono at the advertised price.
Answer: In order to purchase krono at the advertised price, the advertisement must then not be a "Marketing Ploy"

Seller has admitted to the advertisement being a Marketing Ploy in the first sentence. We have a type A and B problem. You cannot reach B, because there is no A.
Any issues after the fact is irrelevant because you cannot reach them until you get passed A.

2. We can try to take the Sellers side.

If I look over the fact that it is not typical to be required to purchase 400+ krono to achieve a price ( Which is much more unlikely than say a 3-10 or 11-20 spread ) this can't be proven or disproven as unlikely as it may be, since we do not know his circumstances. It is absolutely possible he would be willing to sell 400+ in the right situation.

The problem we run into again however, is still we cannot reach B because of A.




I see things literally, that is my take as I do not care about the emotional side of business. I do not believe that negative feedback should be left carelessly,
but I do believe here it is justified.

-Diamond Krono 💍
Click to expand...
this is really taken out of context, if you want to look at the facts, buyer never asked for advertised price, he only asked for lower.
 
Everquestmadesimple said:
he never asked for 8.50 which i advertised, he asked for 7.50
Click to expand...

It doesn’t matter if he offered you $1 per Krono. This is where you say “No, I will sell for 8.50 past 50+ but won’t go cheaper than that.”

This sounds like “I know there’s no way in hell someone will purchase 400 Kronos from me, so I’ll post an $8.50 price tag (as if that‘s my normal price) to get potential customers in, knowing full well I don’t want to sell for that price.” This is a definition of dirty advertising. Ever go to that local run-down car salesman south of town that seems too good to be true? They practice this same advertising model. If there’s ever in any way shape or form a caveat to your posted price, it’s dirty.

And yes, from a resellers point (which by the way, you as the salesman don’t get to determine what your customers do / don’t do with the Kronos you sold, part of the risk of the game) if I see 8.50 per Krono for X amount, I’m going to assume I can purchase even more for even cheaper.

All of this could have been easily avoided with a simple “No”. Throwing out that you have no intentions of selling for $8.50 and really are wanting to stick to the $9.50 price is what warrants the negative feedback, and the $8.50 was just a ploy to get people in, is exactly what bad business ethics looks like.
 
Everquestmadesimple said:
The reason i said it was a marketing ploy right off the bat was to get xuande off my back because i realized he was a krono reseller and i didnt want to sell to him. I was trying to save him time trying to convince me to sell to him so i was short and just said that to get it clear he wont buy from me. when i found out he was banned in the past i really didnt want to sell to him then.
Click to expand...
Being as non bias as possible, I went with your words to Xaunde -

"Just a 'Marketing Ploy' to be honest"
Coupled with the fact that the spread between prices is a 350+ krono difference, I feel I am just being sensible.

I believe your reasoning to him was an accurate statement based on these factors.
Would it not be better to tell him you did not feel comfortable selling to him, rather than to say you are engaging in a marketing ploy?
 
I had 500 krono at the time and i would have been more than happy to sell them all at 8.50 per and not deal with all this petty reseller drama. In the past ive sold 150 and 250 in a single trade. i dont see 400 as impossible.

again buyer never asked for asking price so you cant leave negative feedback for something that never happened
 
The statement of "Marketing Ploy" to Xuande, coupled with the spread on the krono price lead to this trial.

The trial is open to interpretation. Everyone must use their own reasoning and cast a vote. Nobody should be discriminated against for their opinion.

Everyone will not have the same opinions, we all have separate experiences.

This vote is my opinion derived from my business experience.
 
Diamond Krono said:
The statement of "Marketing Ploy" to Xuande, coupled with the spread on the krono price lead to this trial.

The trial is open to interpretation. Everyone must use their own reasoning and cast a vote. Nobody should be discriminated against for their opinion.

Everyone will not have the same opinions, we all have separate experiences.

This vote is my opinion derived from my business experience.
Click to expand...
so your conclusion is that i was selling for 8.50, guys asks 7.50 i say no and i should get negative feedback for not selling for 7.50? you made a comment a moment ago laying out the facts, but you left this one out for some reason.
 
The reason Xuande left negative feedback is because it was stated that a deceptive tactic was being used to pull in customers. That is what I gather from the feedback left above.
Everything in here is open to interpretation. That is what a trial is. We must all use our own judgment.

I already explained above how there is an A and B problem. The price structure only facilitates leaning me more in the direction that you we tactfully baiting customers.

When you say your reasoning for stating "Market Ploy" was to push Xuande away, why would you incriminate yourself rather than tell him that you are not able to sell to him, or further more, ignore him? When I coupled your statement to him, and the price spread, it seems sensible to assume you meant what you said to him.

That is my logic.

Nobody here should be ostracized for their opinion, this is a trial. You may have the feedback removed, or possibly not. Either way it is a learning experience for everyone.
 
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Ctalbus said:
What I see here.

Seller lists 8.5 bulk.

Buyer: will you do 7.5 per krono.

Seller: not at this time.

Buyer: leaves negative feedback.

Yes he did say he prefers to get 9.5 but never did you offer to buy bulk at his 8.5. He never said no to his advertised price. He said no to your 7.5 each and did say he rather get 9.5. You can assume he wouldn't take 8.5 maybe but you never actually make an offer for 8.5 each. But reading these texts you obviously offered 7.5 each and he said no. You never actually upped your price. You just asked oh you won't sell at advertised and he was probably already done talking to you at that point lol.

If you had clearly made an offer to pay 8.5 for x amount then I would see the issue. But it sounds like you were only paying 7.5.
Click to expand...
I didn't ask for 7.50, as he keeps stating. I had a full table and was trying to negotiate:

I just didn't paste it so that I didn't spam the thread with it. He keeps locking in on lies when the simple fact is that he wouldn't sell for his advertised 8.50 because it's lower than his target of 9.50.

1671638700875.png
 
Diamond Krono said:
The reason Xuande left negative feedback is because it was stated that a deceptive tactic was being used to pull in customers. That is what I gather from the feedback left above.
Everything in here is open to interpretation. That is what a trial is. We must all use our own judgment.

I already explained above how there is an A and B problem. The price structure only facilitates to leaning me more in the direction that you we tactfully baiting customers.

When you say your reasoning for stating "Market Ploy" was to push Xuande away, why would you incriminate yourself rather than tell him that you are not able to sell to him, or further more, ignore him? When I coupled your statement to him, and the price spread, it seems sensible to assume you meant what you said to him.

That is my logic.

Nobody here should be ostracized for their opinion, this is a trial. You may have the feedback removed, or possibly not. Either way it is a learning experience for everyone.
Click to expand...
if his argument is deceptive tactic then he has no proof because i was willing to sell at advertising price, which he never asked for.

I stated marketing ploy because I didnt think it mattered. It seemed like a strong statement at the time that would get him to move on. Just because you cant sell 200+ kronos in one sale doesnt mean other people cant. I didnt see this as incriminating myself when i said it because in my mind I was doing nothing wrong and I had no idea this was going to go to quest court.
 
Everquestmadesimple said:
if his argument is deceptive tactic then he has no proof because i was willing to sell at advertising price, which he never asked for.
Click to expand...
8.50 was in my matrix. Stop lying.

Using our exact words:

Me:
I saw on Discord that you have a pretty big overstock. I'm looking to restock my personal bank that I use for subs, buying raid loot, chase items, etcc.
How low would you go on 200 Krono? 225? 250?
I have a krono table that I've pasted below for reference :)
[Price Matrix pasted]

You: its more of a marketing ploy to be honest id prefer to sell around the 9.50 mark.


If he would have responded that he's holding firm at 8.50 I would have purchased the krono. I bought >200 at that rate from another member shortly after this transpired, so I would have honored his list price of 8.50 but instead he said it's a marketing ploy to draw in customers and that his target is 9.50. No counter.
Marketing ploy. False advertising. Deceptive tactics.
 
You change your story any time somebody pokes holes in it. I'm not here to argue with you but I will clear up the lies that you've told. You didn't say "no" you said
"its more of a marketing ploy to be honest id prefer to sell around the 9.50 mark."

Meaning your thread title was a lie, yes?
 
Those are reasons that you came up with after the fact to DARVO.
The full chat log is in my post. That happened AFTER you clearly stated that your target price is below your advertised price.

That's the simple matter that we're testing here: Would you honor your thread's listed price of 8.50? I don't know why you keep turning this into something else.
 
Xuande said:
Those are reasons that you came up with after the fact to DARVO.
The full chat log is in my post. That happened AFTER you clearly stated that your target price is below your advertised price.

That's the simple matter that we're testing here: Would you honor your thread's listed price of 8.50? I don't know why you keep turning this into something else.
Click to expand...
you never asked for 8.50, you asked how low will i go.
 
Its really important everyone reading this understand the facts of what is going on here.

Reseller tried to buy kronos and super cheap deal, got rejected then maliciously left negative feedback because he didnt get his way. Trying to smear other sellers names to get more of a monopoly on reselling. disgusting behavior that warrants punishment in my opinion.
 
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