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Dispute Should this feedback Jahan left for Sports_fan be removed? (1 Viewer)

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Redbot

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jahan
⚖️ This is an official feedback dispute, sponsored by the Ducat shop. After 7 days the votes will be tallied and the most popular judgement upheld. Official feedback rules are found here. ⚖️

@Sports_fan is disputing feedback left by @Jahan. Here is a link to the feedback.

It reads: " Price advertised is not achievable "

"Advertises at low price with high MoQ (ok for me)
But quantity to reach lowest price actually not available even if you sent message right when the post was made"
 
To be honest, sports did the same thing to me. Lead me to believe he had krono for 8.00 then waited a short period, then told me he sold them all for 9 and 10. Then said he had something like 38 left ( would not honor the $8.00 price ) Even though the listing was brand new. He did this to me on two separate occasions. I believe the feedback should stand and is completely justified.

My cousin recently was looking for a washer and dryer at a low cost. There was an advertisement on Facebook that showed the appliances he needed for 700.00 for both a washer and dryer. He drove an hour and when he got there they told him not all advertisements are available at any time even though they are listed as being available at that location. While he was there two other people walked in asking for the same washer and dryer. They basically told the guy working there they didn't appreciate it and left.

Bait and switch is an awful way to get new customers. It makes the company/seller look terrible, and demeans the customer.
 
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Of course not. This is legitimate feedback. Your policy is that legitimate feedback isn't removed unless both parties agree to do so. I appreciate you turning to the community for advice, but I think you should stick to your policy. It's what works best for everybody in the end. That being said, I voted "no," because I believe that your policy is on point, and because I don't like shady business practices.

Also - where is teh paladin guild?
 
So… he’s listing Kronos for $8 a pop, but telling folks they need to buy at least (let’s just say) 20 krono minimum. (MoQ) Then when people are messaging him to buy said 20 krono for a total of $160, he says he just sold them for a higher price? Then says he doesn’t have 20 left to honor that price? I’m assuming then he tries to say something like, “but I’ll sell you 15 for $9.50 each” or whatever?

If that’s the case, then the feedback should absolutely stand. Sounds like a bait and switch scam to me.

EDIT: Shouldn’t call it a “scam” per say. But that’s definitely a way to attract a ton of customers with the mindset of, “well since you’re already talking to me.” This was the way car salesman used to get people hooked to pay more back in the day. Old school, yet shitty selling method.
 
The scenario that transpired with Jahan was simply based on quantity I had, not a deceitful unobtainable price point which he provided in his feedback. He was offered the second lowest rate for his order of 20, based on quantity & supply. I can understand why a re-seller (Diamond) would be upset that I would not lower my rate for less than advertised regardless of my supply count, but the comparison to the washer and dryer is no where near what this is/was. This is not a bait & switch.

If a restaurant offers a special that has a 10 oz Filet Mignon for $29.99 and also has a 16 oz Filet Mignon meal on their regular menu for $49.99, they do not offer the 16 oz meal for $29.99 when they run out of the 10 oz special. This was not a bait and switch by any stretch of the imagination. An order was placed, outside of my current supply, and I simply said I did not have that many for sale right now any longer. I have had similar pricing structures for YEARS on here, and something I thought was common knowledge is that it is based on current supply. If I had an endless supply of Krono and money, I could give them a free Krono for not being able to meet their expectations, but I am not a large corporation with endless resources. That is not feasible.

Think of Black Friday deals in this same regard. "Selling our 100" Samsung TVs For $999". When they are gone, they are gone. They offer you another option for $1199, but cannot simply say "All of our TVs are free game at that new price point".
Think of the grocery store selling 10 items for $10 that are normally $1.25 each. If they do not have 10 left, you pay $1.25 each unfortunately as it is based on current supply because you did not meet the minimum requirements to pay the reduced rate.

I didn't wake up and decide after 5 years and hundreds of transactions to attempt a bait & switch with someone that enjoys the same game I do. No money was exchanged. No falsehoods were given. Honesty was used and the potential buyer did not like the resolution I provided.

Food for thought. Vote accordingly.
 
Sports_fan said:
The scenario that transpired with Jahan was simply based on quantity I had, not a deceitful unobtainable price point which he provided in his feedback. He was offered the second lowest rate for his order of 20, based on quantity & supply. I can understand why a re-seller (Diamond) would be upset that I would not lower my rate for less than advertised regardless of my supply count, but the comparison to the washer and dryer is no where near what this is/was. This is not a bait & switch.

If a restaurant offers a special that has a 10 oz Filet Mignon for $29.99 and also has a 16 oz Filet Mignon meal on their regular menu for $49.99, they do not offer the 16 oz meal for $29.99 when they run out of the 10 oz special. This was not a bait and switch by any stretch of the imagination. An order was placed, outside of my current supply, and I simply said I did not have that many for sale right now any longer. I have had similar pricing structures for YEARS on here, and something I thought was common knowledge is that it is based on current supply. If I had an endless supply of Krono and money, I could give them a free Krono for not being able to meet their expectations, but I am not a large corporation with endless resources. That is not feasible.

Think of Black Friday deals in this same regard. "Selling our 100" Samsung TVs For $999". When they are gone, they are gone. They offer you another option for $1199, but cannot simply say "All of our TVs are free game at that new price point".
Think of the grocery store selling 10 items for $10 that are normally $1.25 each. If they do not have 10 left, you pay $1.25 each unfortunately as it is based on current supply because you did not meet the minimum requirements to pay the reduced rate.

I didn't wake up and decide after 5 years and hundreds of transactions to attempt a bait & switch with someone that enjoys the same game I do. No money was exchanged. No falsehoods were given. Honesty was used and the potential buyer did not like the resolution I provided.

Food for thought. Vote accordingly.
Click to expand...
None of that word salad addresses the actual heart of the claim and you know it. The claim isn't that you're "running out of stock", it's that you never had it to begin with.

You're being accused of combining both false advertising with something called an engagement scam, where you're relying on someone already being engaged with you in a false sale and being convinced into going through with it.

An easy way to disprove it would be to provide names of people who have actually managed to buy these mysterious $8 kronos. Should be easy to prove.
 
Negative feedback left on:
  • Buyer
  • Jahan (8)
  • Monday at 7:42 AM
Positive feedback left on:
  • Buyer
  • adagi (18)
  • Saturday at 7:16 PM
He has no current threads out from what I can see showing he's posted anything between Saturday / Monday selling Krono for $8 each. I honestly think this is the first time I've completely agreed with negative feedback left that does NOT warrant a ban.

This is an easy solution. If you make a post stating you want to sell x20 Krono for $8 each. And you make that sale between the time of posting and another member (in this case Jahan) my response would've been, sorry, I already sold those 20, once I get more in stock I'll let you know.

The wrong thing to do is make a post stating you want to sell x20 Krono for $8 each, then after selling those, telling your next customer "well i'm out of THOSE 20, but I do have THESE 18 for $9 each." That's what makes this seem scummy.

You state in your above posting, "but I am not a large corporation with endless resources." but then proceed to make comparisons to large corporations. BUT, since you made that post, I'll try and clear something up. Basic Economics states if you want to sell x amount of product for y amount of lower price, you as a company should expect that demand is going to sky-rocket when prices are so cheap, meaning, your supply has to be able to withstand the demand. If it can't, that doesn't allow you, the company to change price mid-way because you weren't expecting that amount of demand.

To use your own analogy in Jahans favor... what you're doing, is the equivalent of let's say Game Stop saying "Hey, we're selling Nintendo Switches for $200 all day today." But, when a shitton of people show up and they realize they're running low on Nintendo Switches, they don't get to go "Oh shit, we're selling way too many of these so we're gonna increase the price back up to $300." That's not how that works.

Your business practice here is flawed. Even if you were utilizing MoQ as a way to set prices ONLY on bulk discounts, this doesn't work. MoQ here, is to save time and effort. I for sure wouldn't want to log into the game 100 times to sell 100 kronos. That's why MoQ exists here, saving time, but not as a fluctuating price point. And, if again, if you can't honor the x20 kronos for $8 each, that means your supply has run out, yet the demand remains.

TLDR; Increase your supply to meet the demand, not the price. If you want to sell $8 Kronos that's all fine and good, but expect to take a hit on it.

"
Think of Black Friday deals in this same regard. "Selling our 100" Samsung TVs For $999". When they are gone, they are gone. They offer you another option for $1199, but cannot simply say "All of our TVs are free game at that new price point".
Think of the grocery store selling 10 items for $10 that are normally $1.25 each. If they do not have 10 left, you pay $1.25 each unfortunately as it is based on current supply because you did not meet the minimum requirements to pay the reduced rate." -

Also, your logic here is flawed as well. "Another option" in this sense is a completely different product. Different quality, parts, brand, etc that can determine value. A krono is a krono is a krono. The only thing dictating it's value is what people price it at, and what people are willing to spend to buy them.
 
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I do prefer old freeport, thank you very much.

I will go through the conversations and post them here for the multiple $8 price of Krono sold. If I was a betting man, I would say I've sold 200+ at that rate in the last 6 months. My pricing doesn't change often, but when I have a large stock, I sell it for cheaper. As for you Diamond, as a re-seller, I understand your frustration with my responses to you, but this is not a bait and switch situation.

Using marketing to get "views" being viewed as a bait and switch scenario is not what occurred here, though. Never misinformation or a cover-up to open a dialogue to sell a car, lol. If I have the supply, I sell them at the prices listed. Period.
 
Xuande said:
I don't resell but laughed when I saw your thread title, clicked into it, and saw that you didn't have the MoQ required to get the advertised price. So it's not just Diamond Krono or other resellers.
Click to expand...
Just makes no sense. Click and see something different is just dumb. Guess he likes the clicks? His response just makes it sound like he full of it. I can go through convos? Ok do it then. We would ALL love to see this ;)
 
Marve.jpg
 
So to put my 2 cents in, considering I've posted here and was told that @Redbot could view DMs, if he can see @Sports_fan DMs and see clearly that he does sell at his advertised price of $8 the answer is simple... The feedback is unwarranted. BUT if they view his DMs and see that is in fact a bait and switch, well.... leave it how it is.... seems pretty simple to me.
 
Feedback is intended as a way for the community to police one another.

I'm staying out of this, and hopefully all feedback disputes.
 
Luvins said:
So to put my 2 cents in, considering I've posted here and was told that @Redbot could view DMs, if he can see @Sports_fan DMs and see clearly that he does sell at his advertised price of $8 the answer is simple... The feedback is unwarranted. BUT if they view his DMs and see that is in fact a bait and switch, well.... leave it how it is.... seems pretty simple to me.
Click to expand...
Sports has not posted evidence like he said he was going too.. Keeping your word is apart of being a good businessman and useful person in society, that would benefit us all. He mentioned above that he would post conversations relating to the post with $8.00 sales, and has not presented evidence. This is clear cut. He went through the trouble of writing paragraphs and trying to counter the claim that he was obviously baiting customers, then doesn't take the time to simply post his 8.00 sales from those posts? Interesting..

Wide claims about how he's been selling for 8$ for years, when clearly we are only speaking about his recent posts. This is a lesson for the type of business practice and something we should make an example of what not to do for future reference. That is how you make this site a stronger and more reliable place for customers, sellers, and all.

Pretty words look nice, but in the real world where people do not want to waste their time and feel slighted, they fall on deaf ears.
 
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The feedback should stand as is the policy of this site. I back the policy, and the claim is legitimate.
As for tunnelguy: ( Who we love by the way 🤓)

"I’ve purchased rock bottom prices from Sports_Fan in the past."

The fact that he gave you "Rock bottom" prices in the past has no relevance here. This is not a popularity contest.
The way to avoid this "Popularity contest" is to simply follow the policy of the site. Feedback is not removed as long as it is ACCURATE, or otherwise both parties agree to remove it.

The feedback is 100% legitimate, I experienced it myself. I am not fighting to give sports red feedback, I am fighting to keep this site IN ORDER.
 
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Diamond Krono said:
The feedback should stand as is the policy of this site. I back the policy, and the claim is legitimate.
As for tunnelguy: ( Who we love by the way 🤓)

"I’ve purchased rock bottom prices from Sports_Fan in the past."

The fact that he gave you "Rock bottom" prices in the past has no relevance here. This is not a popularity contest.
The way to avoid this "Popularity contest" is to simply follow the policy of the site. Feedback is not removed as long as it is ACCURATE, or otherwise both parties agree to remove it.

The feedback is 100% legitimate, I experienced it myself. I am not fighting to give sports red feedback, I am fighting to keep this site IN ORDER.
Click to expand...
So if the Admins refuse to intervene, all @Sports_fan has to do it "post" screenshots and modify them to his liking technically. Would that be ok? Would that justify this? Does it mean he deserves negative feedback because somebody didn't like the outcome of their transaction due to his ruleset? Maybe he is bait a switching which is fucked up, but MAYBE he isn't. Just because a few people may have ran into some unfortunate timing and/or outcomes doesn't mean he should be looking at according to these few interactions.

I think that the ADMINS should use their ability to actually SEE THE PROOF and make the easy decision instead of leaving it to a bunch of people who can only look in from the outside.
 
It's not "a bunch of people who can only look in from the outside"
There are a bunch of us that ARE inside that he did this to.

I agree it should not be left to the public to decide, it should just be an automatic "feedback stays based on policy"
Since it is left to the public basic reasoning will result in the feedback remaining on his account, its simply to cut and dry.
 
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Diamond Krono said:
What do you mean "maybe he's not?"

His add:

---> Garage Sale & Flea Market KRONO FOR SALE! $8 ea! <-------​


You message him, he says he has no krono for 8.00 each but will sell for a higher price.

I rest my case.
Click to expand...

I mean I agree completely, but this SHOULD NOT be something that the public decides. Admins are admins for a reason and are able to delve deeper for this particular reason.
 
Assume two things.

OPTION 1: Admins know, they see that he has sold krono for 8.00 under those posts. They delete the feedback because it is then NOT LEGITIMATE since he is selling at 8.00. that WOULD be against policy.

OPTION 2: Admins know, and they see he never sold krono for 8.00 under those posts. They leave it to the public to make an example of, and decide if we as one will take a stance against unsavory practices.
 
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Luvins said:
So if the Admins refuse to intervene, all @Sports_fan has to do it "post" screenshots and modify them to his liking technically. Would that be ok? Would that justify this? Does it mean he deserves negative feedback because somebody didn't like the outcome of their transaction due to his ruleset? Maybe he is bait a switching which is fucked up, but MAYBE he isn't. Just because a few people may have ran into some unfortunate timing and/or outcomes doesn't mean he should be looking at according to these few interactions.

I think that the ADMINS should use their ability to actually SEE THE PROOF and make the easy decision instead of leaving it to a bunch of people who can only look in from the outside.
Click to expand...

No. The facts are irrelevant. My thoughts on this have already been made clear.
 
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1639076162363.png


If someone pmed me today asking for 50, I wouldn't be able to fulfill. Would that be worth a negative feedback?

Is this the scenario that transpired here or is he posting wts at my 50+ price and saying he doesn't have 50+?
 
passaway said:
View attachment 28050

If someone pmed me today asking for 50, I wouldn't be able to fulfill. Would that be worth a negative feedback?

Is this the scenario that transpired here or is he posting wts at my 50+ price and saying he doesn't have 50+?
Click to expand...


You clearly state that you are selling krono for $10. You then offer discounts for large purchases. People go in to your post expecting to pay $10 and then find out they might get lucky and get them cheaper. The other post said krono were $8. You click in and see that the only way you can get 8 is to buy 40. You then message to buy 40 and find out he can't even sell you 40, but he will gladly sell you X amount at a higher price. Person gets up set and leaves bad feedback for what they felt was misleading advertising.

My personal krono ad lists them at $9.50+. I include the + because that is where my price starts. You have to use specific payment methods to get them for that price, otherwise they are $10. I feel my ad is fair because I will gladly sell them for $9.50 and there isn't any requisite default payment method on this site. You can literally take anything.

If he would have listed his ad as "$8 and up" then I would say the feedback wasn't legit.
 
You could also argue saying 8.00 and up still leaves the door open for the possibility of 8.00 to be obtained, which it is not.
Just another reason why the feedback is legitimate imo.
 
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  1. Yes, I am guilty of hitting Planes of Power more than I would like to admit in the first 24 hours of the expansion and not coming back to see this discussion in real time.
  2. Yes, I will post sales of $8 per once I go through 30+ pages of transactions in the past 5 years which have pricing and slogans of all sorts, but each and everyone has a price break at X. At times I sell them for 1-5 for $12, 6-10 at $11 and 11+ for $10. etc depending on quantity. Same scenario as this, that if I do not have 11+ left, the price is already listed in the body of the post, every time like it was in this scenario.
  3. No, this was not a bait & switch
  4. Yes, my pricing is always competitive.
  5. Yes, doing HUNDREDS of transactions with nothing but positive feedback paints a pretty good picture of my credibility, which is a better story than someone trying to use a cancel culture approach here because I couldn't sell them as many Krono as they wanted.
  6. Yes, my word salad is the only kind salad I partake in.

I appreciate that I struck a nerve with Mr. Re-Seller himself, because it shows that you are passionate about making X per Krono as your main supplier sells them to you for Y, which you explained to me in our messages during this debacle when I couldn't meet the order of 40 you placed. I did offer you my whole supply (28) at the pricing I listed in that bracket though, which I do with all offers/inquiries.

Passaway said it well, as this is the exact scenario that transpired. My titles are usually something to grab attention, get a few laughs and the body of the post provides DETAILED PRICING for the things I am selling based on quantity and supply I currently have.

I believe Diamond and Jahan take advantage of situations regularly. They would eat 90% of a steak and then complain that it wasn't cooked correctly, with the intent of getting it for free, trying to utilize a toxic loophole. Is it considered a scam? Is it considered 'OK'? Is it considered 'brilliant'? However you slice it, they are using an approach that is not good for this site or this community. "I didn't get my way, they wronged me, now shame them".

Vote to remove the negative feedback or to keep it; but until I run out of Krono, my price is $9 for orders of 1-39 and $8 at 40+ (My current supply is 39 ;) )

You be the judge.
 
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The negative feedback should not be removed in my opinion If AND ONLY IF they did a deal, exchanged goods, currency, or services and someone was unhappy this is just how it goes.

If there was never a transaction then I dont think anyone should be able to leave feedback on another user except in very particular situations. (like this one lol)

In a weird situation like this where you cant complete the transaction and he wastes your time I feel like if he advertises a price and he doesnt have the inventory to honor that price its 100% on him to honor that price for whatever inventory he does have if the buyer was willing to buy the full amount to get the special amount specific sales price. Otherwise buddy there is an edit button and you can change whatever you need to on your post based on your current inventory. Dont advertise stuff you dont have lmfao.... so yeah this is a weird one but it looks like he wastes a lot of peoples time who are willing to buy and he cant do the deal because he doesnt have the inventory hence the feedback should stay. You cant wastes people times like that. Time is money.

You can talk all the crap you want in private messages (I actually think you can't). But Its really important to keep your buyers happy regardless.

P.S. Let me get some kro for 8!
 
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Out of everything said, nowhere did he list who he sold krono to for 8.00 😴

"I believe Diamond and Jahan take advantage of situations regularly." -- Give examples
"I will go through the conversations and post them here for the multiple $8 price of Krono sold" -- Give examples
"Yes, doing HUNDREDS of transactions with nothing but positive feedback paints a pretty good picture of my credibility" --Give examples 😁

Bruh

"I couldn't meet the order of 40 you placed" -Add listing: ( WTS 8.00 KRONO COME ON IN BOYS FREE KRONO )
 
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Not to be a sore thumb, but I honestly think what hurt your business more than the feedback was the way you conducted yourself.
Wide claims with no facts. Claiming others are "Jealous" or "Out to get you"

Nah man, it's just shady to lure people in with a low price and then turn around and tell them you won't honor it.
Not trying to be a dick man but defending this is a tough sell. Probably would have went away if you just said I thought it would pull in some customers, people didn't like it, I learned what not to do, maybe johan would remove the feedback.
But instead your doubling down making accusations of which there is no way you could possibly know for sure.
 
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Several people have purchased Krono for $8 from me in the past with the same structural type of post: $10, $9 and $8 breakdowns with quantities listed. Sturm2k, Hopeless, Tinlaar, Escoe, yyrian and Gravityflux, are just to name a few.

I wanted to make sure to answer your question before acknowledging the fact that I am glad to see you finally realize that marketing does in fact "help aka lure" people in to check out what you are selling. My price points will always be the same with quantities attached. I hope that my supply is ever-so-plentiful to meet all of the demand, but that is not realistic.

If you would like, I can contact you when my supply is at a point where I can beat your current supplier, Diamond.
 
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