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WoW Moderator

Discussion in 'Banned Users' started by Wilbur, Feb 27, 2008.

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  1. Wilbur

    Wilbur New Member

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    Ok, so, new site, new mod.

    Only thing is, none of us have heard of Kevin73, He's not a well known RG' member, not a great contributor, and there are/were several far better candidates interested.

    So, whats the agenda here?

    To backup my claims that there is something quite fishy about this.

    Our guy has 41 posts. 21 of Which have been in the last two days. Prior to that, it was 9 in January of this year, then prior to that, it was April '07.

    After reviewing the posts (and the "moderator guidelines") I've found that he ticks 'Fuck all' boxes, aside the ability to post in English, and very few of his contributions have been useful on the same scale we get from Bladee/Decker.

    So yes, in short, I'd like to know who was smoking the crack pipe when this was reviewed.
     
  2. Silvern

    Silvern New Member

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    Whoa whoa whoa now buddy likes try to keep it calm here!!

    I'm from the EQ section, but being a mod is just about keeping crap posts (like this one) cleaned up.

    So as long as he's not abusing his power I fail to see the issue.

    Do you need a tissue to wipe your pussy?
     
  3. Wilbur

    Wilbur New Member

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    Thus your need to comment?

    I am quite calm about the situation, I'm not happy about it, but I'm calm.

    As for my post being crap? Grow up. I was asking a valid question, which as a paying customer, I feel I am entitled to an answer.
     
  4. Spunge16

    Spunge16 Well-Known Member
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    Kevin who?

    Seriously though, i'd rather see a moderator with a bit more reputation from RGs and i think Bladee or decker would be a good choice.

    Someone with knowledge of the game (Altho i'd pwn them in pvp np!), Who is known on the forums and has helped out a great deal in the past
     
  5. decker

    decker Well-Known Member

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    You should see him when his not carm...

    Guess you are talking about your own post...

    This is true. A mod have to be fair and strict.

    ... Not called for ...

    Now I should say something in this matter as my name is here a few times. Thanks guys. But as stated before, I’m not that good at writing English. I have some learning to do. I'm just glad that you guys, most the time, can understand my strats / hacks / model changes.

    I hope that Kevin73 will become known with time. And I'm sure that he would not have been chosen if Redbema didn’t have an idea with it.

    I understand and fell somewhat how you do. It’s weird that someone you don’t know all out what seems to be nowhere become mod.

    - decker
     
  6. Silvern

    Silvern New Member

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    Sorry I am on my period... ignore me I'm just cranky
     
  7. Cade

    Cade The Rainman, (Administrator)

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    Kevin was chosen unanimously among the staff. Bladee and decker were, mainly, not chosen because (sorry guys) they can't speak English well enough.

    To the rest of the staff: I believe this thread should be left open for at least the next few days, and I'd appreciate if it was.
     
    #7 Cade, Feb 27, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2008
  8. Wilbur

    Wilbur New Member

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    I also applied. Its not as if I don't have the experience/knowledge/ability to communicate in English effectively. I'd also say I've been far more active within the community for a much longer period of time than kevin73.

    I feel that the staff messed this one up. Within the next few days I'm sure you'll get a good idea of the communities oppinion.
     
  9. Bladee

    Bladee Member

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    I would like to make my point of view on this thing clear. This might be harsh, but that is how I feel.

    I understand that I have not been chosen, and yes my English sounds like 10 years old typing on a broken keyboard. It is something I am working on.

    As Decker said, it is up to Bema and other mods to choose new one.
    However what cracks me up, and makes me to keep on whining about this is that I clearly saw in the Bemas post about new mod following things:
    • You need to be well known on forums
    • You need to be active

    Now, what makes me questioning Kevin being Mod is that he is neither of those things, and that's for I question Bemas choice.

    I heard that Kevin might not contribute much, but what he writes is quality.. Where are those posts? Did I miss something?

    Kevin you might question me, why do am I so angry at you, and trying to make you look bad? I am not. But if someone states that he contributed quality, then he should live up to that, which I doubt you do, sorry.
    I in fact question mods choice, but not you as a person.

    Last words is that I am really surprised that mods used "need better English" as excuse to turn down Decker and Wilbur
    None of them had ever problem explaining their tips / hacks / strategies. But it looks like you are going for the length of the posts, not its contest. Give me 10 min and I will write up a one page long guide on how to get attuned to Karazhan, but who needs it? It takes 5 min to find that info on wowhead.

    So in short, I support Spunges and Wilbut in that I would also like someone who actually were more well-known on RG, and who contributed. It would benefit community more.

    I might piss off some people with this post, I might not.. Take it as you want, this is my opinion.

    -Bladee-
     
    #9 Bladee, Feb 27, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2008
  10. Spunge16

    Spunge16 Well-Known Member
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    if i had known there was a spot i would've entered!

    I fit all criteria and im a forum whore who is always online either at work or at home :p

    Plus im scottish, pewpew¬!
     
  11. Wilbur

    Wilbur New Member

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    Thats why we didn't tell you ;-)
     
  12. Spunge16

    Spunge16 Well-Known Member
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    haha

    sorry caffeine rush there, too much coffee at work :(

    This day is dragging on WAAAAYY too much!
     
  13. tartoob

    tartoob New Member

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    for some reason, i dont feel like same as redguides,, maybe it need some time.

    overall loads of work done here :) cheers
     
  14. SandLOL

    SandLOL New Member

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    I would've applied for the moderator position.

    After receiving the job, THERE WOULD NEVER BE ANOTHER SANDLOL JOKE...EVER.
     
  15. Spunge16

    Spunge16 Well-Known Member
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    Lies,

    i'd make a secret underground association just to do those jokes where you'll never find us

    viva la revolution!
     
  16. Bladee

    Bladee Member

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    LoL sand... not gonna happen.

    Tho seems like several people who wanted be mod missed the announcement..
     
  17. Wilbur

    Wilbur New Member

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    /me coughs.

    Stop De-railing the thread?
     
  18. kevin73

    kevin73 Member

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    If there is a problem with me being a moderator that it is causing a dissension among the more active members, and some people have difficulty dealing with things or people that they are unfamiliar with, I will step down and allow the administrators to fill my shoes with a big cute fluffy bunny if they want to.

    I applied for the position because I knew I could remain objective and avoid flame wars and ePeen battles, since I utilize RG as a place to exchange guides and tips, not to have water-cooler conversations or playground teasing.

    In defense of my contributions - yes, my contributions are nowhere near the quality and caliber of Decker, and I have not been around nearly enough as Wilbur or Bladee. Why don't I have more content posted in RedGuides? Because the "quality" guides have already been written - on other sites. I am a firm believer in not reinventing the wheel - not because I'm lazy, but because someone will ultimately post a response like "This was posted ten months ago - learn to search" or "this looks really familiar to the guide I saw on somesite.com"
     
  19. Frybread

    Frybread the dude askin' da questions

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. kevin73

    kevin73 Member

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  21. Wilbur

    Wilbur New Member

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    The problem I have is that you are not an active member and noone knows who you are. I'm not entirely sure of the process that the admins went through on deciding the new mod, but Its quite easy to gather that they didn't mark the candidates on the criteria they set forth in the initial application post.

    As a moderator remaining impartial is of course reasonably important, however being involved with the community is arguably more important. Most of the ePeen battling died off when several (key) members were banned (in the aftermath of flame wars mostly). I also feel that being involved in the 'banter' of RG is important for a mod'. All the previous moderators have been well liked, well known, active contributors, a caste you are not currently associated with.

    10 Million active subscribers, so of course there is going to be some element of re-invention or repetition in whats posted. Personally I don't have a problem with this. Hell, I don't even mind if someone has ripped off another website, IF they have given credit. I'll read anything thats gonna clue me in, or make me a better player.

    Anyway, instead of the inevitable 'two-and-froe' that comes with this sort of post, I'd be very interested to hear the oppinions of the other members.
     
  22. RedBema

    RedBema A Bema that is Red

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    Since you guys are all being honest, I will as well be honest.

    We chose Kevin73 because he fits what a moderator is supposed to be. What do I mean? Here are a few things:

    1. Experience - Kevin has experience in Warcraft. He has owned sites, moderated sites, and administrated sites. In other words, he knows what is going on and how things are supposed to work.
    2. Respect - Kevin has ALWAYS respected other members. Without naming any names, there were members who applied for the moderator job who have either flamed and/or knocked other members down just for the sheer pleasure of self fulfillment. In my opinion, a moderator is not one to do something of that nature, so those of you who have handled yourselves unprofessionaly in the past, you weren't chosen on that basis.
    3. Humility - We don't want anyone on our staff that thinks that they are God's gift to the World of Warcraft. Yes, those of you who have the most problem with the decision that was made are probably the best at what you do. I am sure that you have more gold in your bank, more high level characters on your account, and have raided twice as much as Kevin73, but that is not what makes a moderator. Kevin has had alot of experience with leadership, and we liked that about him. We also liked that he did not flaunt it. We had to ask him directly.
    4. Drama - Kevin does not bring any drama. I would go as far as to say that if he was not chosen, he would have respected the decision instead of ranting about how unfair it was and pinpointing things that he was not sure about.
    5. Quality - !!! Kevin has quality? he has only posted like 3 times!!! Not true. The truth is, Kevin may have not been a primier poster on RedGuides. He may have not contributed millions of threads each month, but that does not matter. Bladee, yes, I did say that the mod needed to be known among the community, and truth be told he was. I knew him, frybread knew him, and so did others. There are thousands of members on RedGuides, just because you guys did not know him personally does not mean that he was not known. Truth be told, RedGuides was pretty vacant of posters in the last few months of it's life. There wasn't alot to choose from. Kevin was one of the guys who pm'd me.

    The fact is this. We chose Kevin because we knew that he would do what we needed. We never said that once we found "a" moderator, we were closing the doors. The truth is, we could probably use a couple-few more. The way that you act and respond to not being chosen initially speaks volumes as to your character and how you would moderate a site. Instead of attacking Kevin73, attack me. I was the one who noticed him. I brought it to the staff and we all unanimously agreed after reading his posts and talking to him directly.

    I am sorry that you all have a problem with it. In your minds, you all would probably do a better job than Kevin could ever do. Feel free to believe that all that you want. I am sure that you all could do a great job, because we did not initially choose you does not mean that we believe that. We are a community and make decisions that are best for the site.

    Being a quantitative poster does not constitute becoming a mod. Your reactions and quality do. Kevin has that.
     
  23. Wilbur

    Wilbur New Member

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    /me chuckles
    I don't know about you Bema, but I'd say my experience outweighs this by some. Without going into specifics, I have run several sites, I still moderate on a few large WoW communities. Additionally I still do a lot of theorycrafting & etc.

    Whilst I agree entirely, I am guilty of doing this on several occasions, and I'm guessing thats what put paid to my application. However, as I look back at some of the stuff from the last few years, all the staff have been guilty of this prior to now. Professionalism when dealing with new members is entirely diffrent to dealing with long-term 'pita' members ;-).

    So you don't want someone who has an ego? Well, again, guilty as charged. Although I find it hard to accept that someone who has had "experience" with leadership is entirely without ego. Nearly all the good Guild Leaders I've known (myself included) are quite proud of what they do and subsequently don't keep it in check at all times.

    I'm also sure he wouldn't have. Infact, I doubt he would have even posted, just gone back to lurking quietly. Again, I fail to see what drama would have occured had Bladee, Decker or I been picked, however picking a total unknown is bound to 'stir the pot' a bit.

    You knew him? Frybread knew him? Well, thats great and all, but hardly any of the rest of us did. Perhaps you would care to demonstrate kevin73's quality? Or at least fill us in on the details that we are obviously unaware of.

    I'm trying not to attack anyone specifically, as I've said, I don't know anything about kevin73, so attacking him directly would be stupid. As for attacking you 'Bema, I have no desire to embark on any crusade against a well established member of staff, no matter how poor I now deem their decision making to be.

    I know for a fact that I would do an excellent job. The same excellent job I've done on all the other sites I've become a representative and community leader for, just because redguides didn't recognise this isn't the end of my world. ;-)

    In summary; I believe the staff picked a weak candidate on purpose, to what ends I can only speculate.
    I also believe that this sort of a poor decision at the inception of a new site is particularly poor planning, something which, in conjunction with a lack of quality posters/contributors has led to the downfall of redguides over the past year or so.
     
  24. RedBema

    RedBema A Bema that is Red

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    Regardless of how you feel, there is no scandal with us picking Kevin73 to be a moderator. There is nothing "fishy" about it.

    What kind of logic tells you that we would pick a "weak" candidate? Kevin is by no means weak. It would not be smart to choose someone who would only demise the community.

    Again, we never said that you weren't as experienced, or you weren't as well known, or that your posts weren't as qualitative. So please stop comparing yourself. Kevin fit NotAddicted's standard. It all blended together for what we are trying to do here.

    Sorry bub', no scandal here.

    Feel free to continue in your public disagreement, but that is all that needs to be said on my end. I am sure that it does not suffice for you, but in actuality it does not need to.

    RB
     
  25. Wilbur

    Wilbur New Member

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    Based upon the criteria which YOU set out, he is clearly a weaker candidate. Arguing otherwise is a fairly pointless exercise.

    I guess this says it all.

    Sub-standard.
     
  26. Runned

    Runned Member

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  27. Stormdruid

    Stormdruid New Member

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    I seriously don't see why you guys are so mad about this. I applied for moderator too, but I held no illusions, and knew that I wasn't very likely to get it, I've only got about 150 posts, and I'm only almost 16 years old. I type in coherent English and all, but really, I don't want to sound mean, but you guys sound a bit like little kids who didn't get their way, and are now whining about it. If kevin is good enough that the ENTIRE staff unanimously voted for him, he should be good enough for you too. Just my two cents,
    -Storm
     
  28. Spunge16

    Spunge16 Well-Known Member
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    I quite agree

    These forums are nothing as good looking as RGs was

    When i heard Redguides 2.0 i expected something great. Get back to the good old days!

    This feels like i've downgraded to 0.5 , even the forum design looks 10 times worse than the RG design

    i got a couple/few months of this left. I'll stick around, but i wont pay again unless i see something truly worthwhile as i was thought promised
     
  29. isobelle

    isobelle Active Member

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    hot damn! i just found this thread and yowzers!

    i really don't know anyone here, so call me crazy or whatever, but throwing tantrums onstage when you aren't elected 8th grade student body president or whatever pretty much guarantees you won't even be on the ballot in 9th grade, AMIRITE?

    /love
     
  30. Siddin

    Siddin Rikk-tikk-tikki-tikki-tchk!

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    Yes, I agree you are entitled to an answer although whether you agree with that answer or not doesn't matter. Also the way you asked shows exactly the type of thing we are not looking for in a mod. One of the major things is being able to stay above the fray, do not take things hard and above all always be professional even if others attack you personally.


    Alright, just because somebody was not "active" in the past (Quotes because that definition differs with everybody's opinion) does not mean that they are not currently active. Hell, even I took close to a year break from both Redguides and EQ. I came back and after a while was re-instated to mod status.
    As for arguing that we didn't mark the candidates... Bema has a post in the mod section about who Bema thought would be best and we went on with things based upon that post. So yes, people were marked and we went with what we think will work. If it doesn't there is always the next person on the list.
    Not only is remaining impartial important, but so is maturity. Being part of the "banter" is actually not important at all for a mod. The few times I have entered a banter with anybody on these forums it was with people that were a: also mods or b: people that i've known for at least a year or so. I can count on one hand how many times i've had a banter with anybody on redguides.
    Just because previous mods have been well liked, well known, etc. does not mean that future mods have to be as well. In fact as long as we know them, they follow the guidelines, prove that they have the maturity to be a mod, can be impartial, etc. There should be no problems with who is a mod and who is not.

    Please note that what i've said is the way i see them. They are not meant as an attack on anybody, nor are they intended to hurt. I just wanted to point out what I thought about things. Also I don't have enough time, or i'd quote others too :(
     
  31. darkeros

    darkeros Active Member
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    I'll just add that I've never EVER seen a forum pick a person that doesn't post over a widely known and trusted member of the community, such as Wilbur. It wouldn't matter if Bill Gates wanted to be my forum mod, I'd take the person that was more active. I'm not implying you guys made a bad decision or made the decision with bad intentions, it just looks weird, even with Redbema's explanation.
     
  32. Redbot

    Redbot Administrator
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    Yeah, this criticism has gone way past constructive, if it was ever that. Moving to BS, feel free to continue it here.
     
  33. Bladee

    Bladee Member

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    Democracy is always bad smelling.
     
  34. Wilbur

    Wilbur New Member

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    /me mutters about communists.
     
  35. RedBema

    RedBema A Bema that is Red

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    Wow,

    Stormdruid, the 16 year old showed more maturity than did Wilbur and Bladee.
     
  36. Spunge16

    Spunge16 Well-Known Member
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    :judge
     
  37. darkeros

    darkeros Active Member
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    You are the awesomest of awesome Spunge.

    This is some of the crap that made RG lose it's edge and is the reason it will never come back until leadership changes. The ones with the power just don't care.
     
  38. kevin73

    kevin73 Member

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  39. darkeros

    darkeros Active Member
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    I actually like this thread and think it's served its purpose very well. I guess you disagree.
     
  40. Bladee

    Bladee Member

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    I am about to question your own maturity at the moment Bema, you who keeps on this discussion and is trying prove us that we are acting childish. You wanna provoke us with your words? I think you just succeed, because I am posting this.

    I didnt wanted to have unknown guy for mod on forums I been on for a while, I stand up and speak. You call the free will childish? Sorry, when I disagree with something I speak up and not keep quite. You should have more respect for others opinion.

    I know that there are quite more people who disagree strongly with your decision about Kevin, but I am not gonna name any.
    Maybe if so many old members have same opinion about your decision, they are not childish, but have a point?
    As I said, it is wrong to call people who disagree with you for childish, we just have different opinions then you and we have rights to explain it for rest of community.

    And if stormdruid agrees with you, it doesnt makes him mature, it just supports your point of view.

    P.S. Very funny pic Kevin, very, it was needed there. Hope you feel the sarcasm =)
     
    #40 Bladee, Feb 28, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2008
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