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Guide [Opinion] The case against verification

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PetrolHand, Aug 24, 2018.

  1. PetrolHand

    PetrolHand BANNED JERK

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    I understand why verification enables some confidence among two parties forced to trust each other. However, I will never become verified on these boards. Verification involves submitting personal information to the admins to review. This is why I won't do it:

    1) I do not trust **anybody**--these boards' admins included--to store my data in a secure fashion. When you send a copy of your drivers license and utility bill to an admin here, you can't take it back. They have it now, and anyone who is better at stealing information than they are at hiding information can also have it now! How good are these admins at securing your data? Are they security experts? Extraordinarily unlikely.

    2) I do not trust **anybody**--these boards' admins included--to not maliciously steal and sell my data. What is preventing these people from selling your data to an identity thief? The job they're doing here is thankless and pays $10 per verification minus overhead, your data is worth a lot more than $10 to an identity thief. Doesn't take much for the financial incentives to outweigh the moral incentives since being a good person doesn't put money in the bank.

    3) In my opinion, quality feedback history > verification. How, exactly, are we guaranteed the admins didn't get duped by someone using fake/stolen credentials in the verification process? Again, it costs $10. Putting your $10 verification on the line for a scam isn't a big deal if you stand to make more than $10. Putting a lengthy feedback history on the line for a scam is more of a big deal. It's much harder to recreate a lengthy quality feedback history than it is to get verified!

    ............

    I have never and will never scam anybody and in order to protect myself against scammers I always consider depth and quality of feedback history when doing a deal, if they have none or little I won't 'go first', if they have a lot I'll go first. In most of the deals I've done I've gone first, I have never been scammed. I also have always completely ignored whether or not they're verified.

    In summary, feedback history > verification for protecting yourself against scammers, and verifying yourself exposes you to an unnecessary amount of counterparty risk for no relevant benefits.
     
  2. Coinstop

    Coinstop Administrator
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    1. -We don't ask for a utility bill, just an issued ID with a name and a face and a link to social media you use. You're making assumptions and you know what they say about that. First and foremost everything is extremely secure and Redbot is in fact a security guru master. That being said, you've probably given more information about your self in your last Facebook post alone then the Picture and name we require.

    2. -We don't want your identity , we have our own. (Again we just want a picture with a name, everything else can be blacked out.)
    -Verification is a free service for premium subscription. The $10 is for Premium on the site and helps support things financially. Neither myself or the other admin get rich off it (averaging about $200 each a month for about 70+ hours of work (doing support, reports, adding content, hosting contests, doing the verification you despise, fixes, social networking, ect ect).
    - Are you really implying we sell data to "identity thieves"? Lol more assumptions and pretty tin foil hat at that. Bonus points for implying we value money over morals.

    3. -Cool opinion and all, but we once had someone try and pull that on us (sent a french ID) and it didn't work out.
    -More "conclusions" based on assumptions.
    - I do agree that feedback is equally important. Paired together , a verified member with outstanding feedback is ALWAYS the best person to go to.

    ..........
    We have had a total of 1 intentional scammer in the history of the old boards and ECT that was a verified user. Verified members generally take things a little more serious given they understand that their anonymity has been removed.
    ..........

    TLDR: Your application for verification has been declined .
     
    #2 Coinstop, Aug 25, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
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  3. hustlin123

    hustlin123 Smarter than DBG
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    If i send a full nude photo with my ID do I get the verification for free, or is it an insta decline? @Redbot
     
    skandal05, Redbot and Coinstop like this.
  4. Redbot

    Redbot Administrator
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    We have a stronger privacy policy than Google or Facebook. It's not saying much, but we're more honest than them as well.

    As for security creds, feel free to pentest. Even if this server were compromised, IDs would be safe as they're kept off-site and require multi-auth.

    Repeat scammers will, and have, built up good reputations. They do this prior to a big 3-4 figure scam. Before verification about 3 scammers did this repeatedly and made it seem like the community was swarming with scams, they lifted tens of thousands from this community over a year.

    Verification is primarily a defense against the repeat scammer. If you have a better idea I'm all ears, but trusting rep and nothing else isn't it.
     
    #4 Redbot, Aug 25, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
    Augmentor likes this.
  5. hustlin123

    hustlin123 Smarter than DBG
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    As someone who is not verified, even I fully support the verification process and it's benefits.
    I would think that simply logging into the website, the admins can ping you and get a general idea of who you are and what you are about. With or without a VPN. I could be wrong though, Im just a fry bag.

    That being said, Redbot is unbelievably on top of security related matters. Frankly if you have any questions related to the matter, I am sure he would be happy to answer them as he is already doing. I've used this site for years and only had 1 issue related to security, it was my own stupid fault... However, within minutes Redbot caught it and I got an e-mail, amongst him locking my account (which is perfect)!

    I also think there is enough members now verified, and minimal scams occurring to support that "tin foil hat" theory as null and void.

    If not, please steal my identity @Coinstop because this debt has got to go!
     
  6. nvidor

    nvidor Well-Known Member
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    Redguides does not have to verifiy but at that point you mine as well use any other site that sells or buys eq stuff. Being verified ensures the safety of the members that if we or you are scammed and or scammer they know exactly who you are and can black list at that point. Restrict access to the site stop further verification measures. I for one do not buy or sell normally with anyone without being verified as they took the time to be a serious seller and or buyer and thats what i myself look for when dealing with stuff. That way if something is to go wrong the members of this site are protected from them doing it again.


    As for access to personal data if that was ever to even be a issue we would of seen it for the eons that redguides has been around already. This is not the case but mearly redbot trying to make redguides the best place to do business with the least amount of shady people. If you are not willing to tell them who you are where your from cause you use a vpn to mask your true self then in my eyes i want nothing to do with you as your shady in my book. That is only me though and my personal opinion while many will differ just how i feel. If got nothing to hide then you wont hide if trying to hide something your gonna hide. As coinstop stated most post more info on facebook discord and other social media platforms about them self that can be gained more personal value to someone then redbot have addresses. Anyone can get someones address and every family member connected with ease these days that should not even be a concern.
     
  7. Abyss

    Abyss Well-Known Member
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    Oh lord this tinfoil hat guy @PetrolHand, tried buying his paladin dude is 100% douche. This dude is straight up weird. Hes like one of those crazies you see on TV scared that he is going to get abducted by aliens while he sleeps. Man submitting your info's to an admin here ain't going to have the NSA knocking on your door or the aliens finding out where you live, and if $10 is going to put you out living on the streets, I dunno send redbot a message pleading your case I am sure hes down for charity.
     
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  8. PetrolHand

    PetrolHand BANNED JERK

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    Ad says bolded/underlined to not send me offers the price is firm, dude sends me a lower offer then calls *me* a douche. Best part is I accept the offer under the condition that he pays in BTC but he's too much of a fucking retard to figure out how to use BTC so he just whines and whines like a faggot in PMs for me to accept Paypal FNF. Account's sold, done with this game forever, GFY with a broken 40 @Abyss
     
  9. hustlin123

    hustlin123 Smarter than DBG
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    Please don't name call and refer to people as f*ggots,
    Im offended, My boyfriend is gay so thats not cool
     
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  10. Coinstop

    Coinstop Administrator
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    Oh man, that brightened my day @hustlin123 .
    But yeah , that kind of talk / actions isnt allowed here. Dont let the door hit you on the way out.
     
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  11. Augmentor

    Augmentor Well-Known Member
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    Classy.
     
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  12. rashidalmarri

    rashidalmarri Active Member
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    i just got scammed yesterday for 48 krono.... jo0hn promised a ranger 60 with epic and sleeper gear, I payed him 48 krono and he sent me login info that never worked... we need more security. worked hard for that money to buy 48 krono =(
     
  13. hustlin123

    hustlin123 Smarter than DBG
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    Sorry this has happened, but that is why you dont buy high end toons off people who are not verified or have high feedback, not to mention a few days old member.
     
  14. eVILE

    eVILE Well-Known Member
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    One thing man, you are in a thread about someone wanting to not have to get verified. The person you dealt with wasn’t verified.

    Don’t get me wrong, verification doesn’t fix everything, but it gives a lot of recourse. Not to mention having your info posted. No way would I want my info posted for a bunch of pissed off gamers to fuck with.
     
    Redbot likes this.